Digital Content Marketing for Churches | Austin Savage

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Austin Savage breaks down how easy it is to produce then deploy your churches digital content online to better market your church

Podcast Transcription


Bart Blair: [00:00:45] Hey, Austin Savage, thanks so much for hanging out with Jason and me today.

Austin Savage: [00:00:49] Hey, Bart, it is a true pleasure, and I’m excited for our conversation, so thank you guys for having me.

Bart Blair: [00:00:54] Yeah, we’ve been looking forward to this and it was great to just have a little bit of a chat before we started recording so that we could get a little bit more familiar with your story. You’d met Jason once before on another podcast.

Austin Savage: [00:01:07] We go way back?

Jason Hamrock: [00:01:08] Way back.

Bart Blair: [00:01:09] Yeah, way back, like a year and a bit. He was a guest on a podcast that you were co-hosting at the time. But for our audience, who may not know, you may not recognize your silky smooth voice from any of your other podcasts. Why don’t you just share a little bit about your background, your history, what you’ve done in ministry, and what you’re doing today, which is really going to kind of launch into the conversation that we want to talk about?

Austin Savage: [00:01:31] Yeah. Do you really think my voice is silky smooth? I don’t think I’ve ever heard that before.

Bart Blair: [00:01:36] I don’t know, I guess I just..,

Austin Savage: [00:01:38] I’ll take it.

Bart Blair: [00:01:39] Oh, sure, sure, take it, Austin.

Austin Savage: [00:01:40] I take the compliment gladly, and you know what? You just boosted the rest of my day, it’s going to be a great day. Yes. So my name is Austin Savage, most importantly, husband and dad. But on the kind of like work side, I grew up in a ministry family, so ministry sort of is in my blood in some ways. My dad was a pastor for like 14 years as I was growing up, and then my mom was the CEO of a national nonprofit called Hearts at Home. And so they would do these conferences, faith-based conferences, for thousands of moms each year, and so kind of growing up, I would be part of putting these conferences on and making them happen. And just kind of like, I just saw a lot of the behind-the-scenes of ministry. And so that kind of naturally led into, during college, I started doing an internship with The Unstuck Group. And I kind of, you know, in college I was like curious, I’m like I am sort of interested in ministry, but I also don’t really feel like I’m supposed to work in a church, but I like making things. And so I just like had all these kind of like, you know, this swirl of interests. And it ultimately, you know, as I was doing this internship with The Unstuck Group there, a church consulting company, I kind of found a niche. That was the first time I learned the words content marketing, I’d never heard that phrase. And they really taught me how to use the kind of creative passions that I had to write, and create and, you know, just do different things for people to engage with online, to do that in a strategic way to accomplish goals, and support an audience, and to support churches ultimately.

Austin Savage: [00:03:20] And so that led me to a job with an organization called 95Network after that, which helps small churches. That’s where I met Jason when he was a guest on the 95 podcast, in the good old days that I was hosting that, and that was a lot of fun. I think I got to host like 95 episodes of that show, which is so awesome and it’s been cool to see that show carried forward. And ultimately, after a few years, I just felt like it was time for me to kind of step out on my own, and I started a content marketing agency, and so that’s called Savage Content Collective. And so now me and my team, we spend all of our time at work every week just focusing on helping people launch podcasts, write blogs, write emails, manage their social, and to the list goes on and it is a lot of fun. So that is the sort of long, sort of quick version.

Jason Hamrock: [00:04:10] You know, when you say the words, content, and marketing together, you know, I think churches, because a lot of the people that are listening to this podcast are church staff and different levels of church staff people. And I think they probably are, they know content marketing, maybe they think they know content marketing. But I want to hear from you, what, when you say content marketing, what are you specifically doing? What’s that content and how are you marketing it?

Austin Savage: [00:04:40] Yeah, that’s a great question. That’s going to take up our whole time here, Jason. No, I’m just kidding. To me, and I don’t know if everyone would define it this way, but this is how I look at it, I define content marketing as digital trust-building, that is a phrase that I just feel makes a lot of sense. And in many ways, you know, especially in the church world, you know, you think about it, if you even go back ten years or so, like a lot of times we built a lot of engagement with people in our community by showing up for coffee and like having conversations and just like showing them that we care, you know, that we are there, that we understand their needs, that we want to support them. And what content marketing is, is really just kind of taking that same perspective and energy, and moving it online. And so a lot of the work that we’re doing with our clients is helping to bring the value and the support that they have to offer their audience today, and help them accomplish that, and show that online.

Austin Savage: [00:05:45] And so I kind of look at the goals of content marketing as kind of three things, is to add value, to build trust, and to ultimately create community. And so we want to be adding value to people’s lives today, every single person here who is listening to this podcast has ways that they can add value to people that they’re connected to online. They can encourage them, they can support them, they can give them advice, all of that makes people’s lives better, it adds value to them. As a result, you are going to build trust with that person and create community, which is then going to make it way more likely that someone’s going to take a step with your ministry, with your church, because they have built trust with you. And so it really is, I think a lot of times this is kind of the perspective we’re rebelling against in a way with content marketing is, especially in the church world, a lot of times we’ll just jump in and be like, hey, you should come to church. Like, Hey, come to church, come this weekend, we have this event, like it’s very call to action driven, like we’re asking people to do something constantly. And what this perspective, what content marketing acknowledges is, that ultimately it takes trust for people to be willing to do that. And if we are putting energy into building trust with people, then we’re earning the right to make the ask for whatever we want them to do alongside our ministry. And so that’s the general version, does that make sense?

Jason Hamrock: [00:07:05] Oh, it does. And I love your three steps to that because I think working in a church, we’re so guilty of going, that’s your first step is come on over, you come to church.

Austin Savage: [00:07:17] Exactly.

Jason Hamrock: [00:07:18] I mean, that’s going to happen to a certain percentage of people, but boy, these days it’s a little more difficult. And the thing that I, when I think about the content side, when churches go, I have no time to create content. Well, what kind of recommendations or advice do you give somebody about what that content is?

Austin Savage: [00:07:39] Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, it honestly does depend for everyone on, we kind of like to say it two ways is, it depends on what you are good at, what comes most naturally to you, but then also you have to balance that with where the people you’re trying to reach are spending their time, and both of those things are honestly unique. And so for me, kind of the easiest thing, like this is just a personal example, but for me, the easiest thing for me to do is create videos, I can do that in like 5 to 10 minutes. Create a video and put it out, and in 20 minutes there’s a video out on the Internet that people can consume, that’s easy for me. I’m a better writer, but it takes me a lot more time. And so for me, as I’ve been kind of thinking through, how do I create content? It ultimately does come down to the fact that I need to do what’s quickest right now, and so that has led me to creating videos and starting a YouTube channel. But as I have thought through that as well, like, it kind of has a trickle effect that’s very strategic for me because the people that I’m trying to reach are interacting with content there and it kind of serves some other aspects of our business and our sales process and stuff like that.

Austin Savage: [00:08:50] So my encouragement to leaders is, you know, as you think through your time, and where you’re investing the time each week into, is just thinking through what are you best at? What comes most naturally to you? Is that writing, you know, that might mean that you should start writing blogs each week for your ministry. Is that recording a short video, that might mean that you might need to take one point from your sermon last week and turn it into a short video that you can share on social media? And just starting to think through a content lens really makes a difference. And I know it’s new, like we don’t think that way, but it really just helps us kind of like piece things together in a way that’s meaningful.

Austin Savage: [00:09:34] But I would also say, on the time side, is I’ve heard that all the time, as we were working with pastors at 95Network, was we just don’t have the time for this. And I would say, well, I mean, connecting with people is pretty important. So like I feel like in some ways you’ve got to make the time, because if you know that the people you’re trying to reach are spending a significant amount of their day online, but you’re not putting energy into showing up online, then there’s probably a gap somewhere that you’re spending your time that is not going to have as much ripple effect or momentum created as investing in content would.

Jason Hamrock: [00:10:10] Yeah, what I say often is, hey, every week 75% of the content is done because somebody stood up on the pulpit and preached, Yeah, there you go, grab that and use that. And there’s a felt need in there somewhere that can be connecting and attracting to some somebody who’s de-churched or unchurched in a way that’s going to be meaningful for them. I mean, Bart, you preached for years, I’m sure that would go through your mind of, of course, I’m teaching the 99 here, but I need to say something that’s going to attract to the one.

Bart Blair: [00:10:47] You know, when I think about it from a pastor’s perspective, I’ve said this to so many churches that we have the opportunity to interact with, that I put so much time and effort and energy into writing a sermon, preparing a sermon, studying for the sermon, then delivering the sermon, and wanting to do so in a way that was going to move the needle in people’s lives who are sitting in the room. And maybe the people who might watch the full video back, or the full sermon, because they weren’t there on Sunday, maybe they watch it on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday, or somebody finds it in the future through an organic search of some sort, but I want to make sure, to the best of my ability, to help that content live on beyond the Sunday, but then also move people in a specific direction. And Austin, I want to kind of pick your brain on this aspect of content marketing. You used the term trust-building, well, trust-building, look, at the end of the day, let’s call it what it is, it’s part of the buyer’s journey, right? So for those people who are listening to this, and there are plenty who just really cringe at the idea of bringing business practices and business language into the church, let’s start by just acknowledging that our business is called Missional Marketing, marketing is a business term, but it’s really outreach. We’re trying to do outreach, we’re trying to introduce ourselves to people who don’t yet know us, and move them relationally towards a place where we can actually get to know them and they know us better. So let’s talk a minute about that buyer’s journey, so to speak, in the business world, people will say, you know, someone will do business with you when they know, like, and trust you. Right? And so you said content marketing is all about building trust, and we want to build trust with the people we’re trying to reach. Describe for us how you would generate content and publish content in a way that’s intended to, or designed to, move someone along that trust pathway to a place where they’re actually ready to say, yes, I think you’re a good fit for me. I think you’re a good fit for me. And of course, we’re talking specifically about churches here, I think you’re a good fit for me, so I think I want to show up on a Sunday and see if everything that I’m seeing online is actually authentic and true in person. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Austin Savage: [00:13:11] Yeah, 100%. And I also have some work going on in my house, so if you hear like super loud noises in the back, I’m so sorry, but it is what it is. But it’s really funny that you mentioned the buyer’s journey because, in our conferences for 95Network, I used to actually teach on this, as I kind of like adjusted the buyer’s journey to be relevant for churches, and so I’ll just go ahead and present that here if that’s cool. So the kind of classic buyer’s journey is, there’s the awareness stage, that leads to the consideration stage, that leads to the decision stage. And for churches, I like to just add one more thing at the end there, and that’s just to the discipleship stage, so it doesn’t just end at decision, it ends at discipleship. And it’s interesting because, you know, there are those kind of four phases, but churches really operate as if people start in the consideration stage, so they really operate and communicate to people as if they’re already kind of thinking about going to church. Or it’s just like all they need is that invitation, because they’re just kind of waiting for people to ask them to take that step, kind of like I talked about earlier.

Austin Savage: [00:14:19] But that’s not true, a lot of people, the majority of people, that you are trying to reach are either in the awareness stage or before the awareness stage, like even earlier on. And the only way to move people from the awareness stage to the consideration stage is through trust. And so in order to do that, that involves talking about felt needs. So that might be, you preach all the time about anxiety, or managing your finances, or parenting, or marriage, or all of these things. I mean, these are things that people are navigating every single day, that no matter what their faith journey looks like, they are trying to figure those topics out. And so what it looks like for churches, is to start talking about those topics that are meaningful to the people that they’re trying to reach in a way that connects to them. And so, like, you guys were just talking about sermons, you know, you are developing content every week, and maybe just sharing the sermon online might not be the most effective way for someone to engage with as of a kind of first touch with your church, but if you hit on something like parenting and have kind of a key takeaway for people, you know, the next day sit down, you know, even just in your office and just record a one-minute little encouragement to parents that is serving to give them value and build trust.

Austin Savage: [00:15:43] And once people are in the consideration stage, they’re like, hey, you know what, I can kind of vibe with like what this church is doing, I feel like I’ve gotten some value from them, and I’m kind of curious to learn more. What we like to tell our clients is the thing that moves people from consideration to decision is then that education, you know, that’s when we’re telling people about what it looks like to get involved in the church, what it looks like to follow Jesus, you know, what all of that means. That is ultimately leading people to decide if they’re not a follower of Jesus, to become a follower of Jesus, or decide to become part of the church if they already are a follower of Jesus, which leads them into a lifelong journey of discipleship. And so, does that make sense? Does that answer your question?

Jason Hamrock: [00:16:25] So I want to repeat that, so those four stages are really important for people to hear. Those four stages are, do I have this right, the awareness stage, engagement stage…

Austin Savage: [00:16:34] Consideration, but yeah, same…

Jason Hamrock: [00:16:35] Consideration. Then what comes after the engagement or consideration stage?

Austin Savage: [00:16:40] Decision, and then discipleship.

Jason Hamrock: [00:16:43] Discipleship. So those are the four stages, and I think you’re right, I think so many churches go, oh yeah, they’re already considering coming here.

Austin Savage: [00:16:49] Exactly. Yeah.

Jason Hamrock: [00:16:51] And so many options, and everything’s online. That’s not the case, church, you have to meet them earlier.

Austin Savage: [00:17:00] Yeah, I mean people are just living their life, you know, like in a lot of ways. And so, you know, I think it really is a disservice to your ministry to assume people are further along in their faith interest and faith journey than they are. You know, you know very well that people are relational, and that’s why we’ll do things like sit with someone in a coffee shop, hear their story, you know, all of that stuff. But the way that people want to engage with brands, quote-unquote, you know, and I use that word generally and loosely, but people want to engage with organizations online, they do. And so it’s showing up intentionally in those spaces is what builds enough trust for people to get to the place where they’re like, okay, tell me more. How do I get involved? What does that look like? But that’s down the line, and sometimes it takes a lot of time too.

Bart Blair: [00:17:55] You’re absolutely…You are hopping back and forth over one of my soapboxes, you said something that I just love to jump on this soapbox. And that is, both inside and outside the church, I think we have a tendency to assume that people are closer to where we are than they actually are. And part of that comes, I mean, part of that, I think, is just a general reflection of our self-centered nature as human beings, that people are like me. Why wouldn’t everyone think like I like, and like the things I like, and be interested in the things that I am? So you just, you always assume that people are only one or two steps away, one or two conversations, one or two tweets, away from thinking exactly the same way that you think. Right? But the reality is, people of my generation, Jason, is a little younger than I am, you are a lot younger than both of us, I grew up in a town, in a community, where everybody went to church, the 1970s, 1980s. And it wasn’t, and it was all about what brand your church was, right? So we had the Baptist, and the Methodist, and the Presbyterians, and the Church of Christ and, you know the whole nine yards. And today, the questions that we need to be asking are not so much about where you go to church, but where are you on your faith journey? How far from even darkening the doors of a church building are you? We know the ultimate goal is to not get people to church, the ultimate goal is to get people introduced to Jesus. And we have to be thinking that way when it comes to our content creation and what we’re actually doing with our social media accounts, what we’re doing with blog posts, what we’re doing with our YouTube channels. And I don’t want to make this podcast be about me because you’re our guest, but you did jump on something there that I think is just really important for people to hear. I think Jason and I have this conversation with churches all the time.

Jason Hamrock: [00:19:50] Oh, every day.

Bart Blair: [00:19:51] Yes, there is low-hanging fruit when it comes to marketing in the church space because there are always going to be people who’ve just recently moved to your community who are looking for a church. And if you’re a good church and you fit the model of what they previously experienced or you have something to offer their kids or their family that aligns with their life plans and their life intentions, then that’s low-hanging fruit. But the vast majority of the people that we’re trying to connect within our community, haven’t even given church a thought, it’s not even on their radar. And so we have to figure out a way to meet them in the middle of their mess, meet them where they are in life, and build trust with them by providing real content, that’s real useful, and real helpful, you know? So I want to stop there. Jason, you look like…I want to say this, Austin, I have never seen Jason take notes in a podcast before, but he wrote all that down.

Jason Hamrock: [00:20:48] I did.

Austin Savage: [00:20:48] That’s awesome. You’re welcome to steal it and use it for your clients, I don’t care.

Jason Hamrock: [00:20:51] Yeah, I just, I like to regurgitate that to churches all the time. Because I paint this picture of, you know we’re all on some kind of a faith journey, whether you say you have no faith. No, you do, you have faith in something. And I always like, try to draw this line to say, at some point, you’re on this journey and I love this, this awareness stage, you know, and then this engagement considers stage, because that decision stages sometimes not only just joining in a church, it’s also accepting Jesus, you’re dealing with the cross. You going to have to deal with that cross at some point in your life, either you’re going to say no to it, or you’re hopefully going to say yes to it. And then after the cross, is now you’re in this discipleship, I mean, I just love all this stuff. But you are in such a great area and market, because this content marketing, we, as churches, we have to do a way better job…We’re creating content all the time for our people, we’re horrible at using that content and repackaging it, repurposing it, for people that are far from God outside the church. We think, oh, just show up to church and you’ll get your…No, you can’t think that anywhere. So I just love what you’re doing, Austin, and keep doing it.

Austin Savage: [00:22:06] It’s interesting, I mean, I think a lot of the practical, you know, like all of those things are very practical, right? Like parenting, money, you know, like anxiety, even like topics like mental health, that kind of stuff, like those are all just like talking about those things, it’s very practical, and I think a lot of times what keeps church leaders, especially, like wary of it is, it doesn’t feel spiritual all the time, like it doesn’t feel like you’re posting content that’s like really like deep, meaningful, spiritual. And honestly, like, trust isn’t built by things that feel deep, meaningful, spiritual right up front, right? Like, you know, when you first meet someone, you know, you’re not always talking about the most deep portions of their soul, like that comes that comes down the line. And so I think it’s getting comfortable with that, though, of just being willing to share something simple, and to share just an encouragement that might not have, you know, it might not feel like it has a lot of spiritual depth to it, but it has a lot of practical value to it, and those things stick with people, and those things they remember, they remember who taught them that perspective, or that phrase, or whatever it is that you’re sharing.

Austin Savage: [00:23:15] I mean, I’ve had, I know even just personally in our business, I’ve had people, we share content marketing tips mostly, and I personally share like a lot of like personal affirmations, and you know just like helping people kind of think through like what they have to bring to the world, that kind of stuff. But I’ve had people, you know, send me messages interested in working with us and they’re like, hey, I’ve been watching what you’ve been doing for the past eight months, and I’ve gotten like so much value from it. And it’s just the consistency from me and our team of just sharing content. And, you know, we would have never known that someone was interacting with, getting value from our content, had they not reached out eight months later and told us, hey, I’ve gotten so much value, I’d love to work with you. But that’s what’s happening constantly online, is people are just in the background, they are consuming and they are finding value and that pays off in the long run as they are developing real relationships with you, your team, your ministry.

Jason Hamrock: [00:24:10] Yeah, and it’s the gift that keeps on giving, right? You can write one blog that reaches thousands of people, or you can just have that one conversation with one person, but you have to repeat it over again and again and again, and again. Why not take that content and digitally capture it, and then it can go viral.

Austin Savage: [00:24:29] Exactly. Yeah.

Bart Blair: [00:24:31] Austin, you use this phrase, you like to get practical? So I want we only have a few minutes left, do you have a hard stop? Because you got to go pick up your kids from school or daycare or wherever they are, so I want to make sure that we respect that because we don’t want them to think they’ve been abandoned, we don’t want you in trouble or your wife either. Okay. So for the last few minutes that we have, let’s do this. I’m listening to this podcast or watching this podcast on YouTube, and I’m buying what you’re selling here, I’m going to drink the Kool-Aid. I need to do more as a church leader to create content that I can leverage for reaching people in my community and helping build trust. You have 3 minutes to sit down with me, and give me 3 minutes’ worth of pointers, where are you going to tell me to start? What should I do?

Austin Savage: [00:25:22] Yeah, well, I’m going to assume that for this example that you are not creating content yet. And, you know, maybe you’re sharing some like promotional posts on Facebook or something, but not really thinking through value-based kind of like content that connects with people today. I would say start very, very simple, and this is often what we tell, especially, clients that we work with who haven’t created a lot of content, but the pressure is that it has to be awesome, it has to be big, and it has to be very strategic and intentional. And I would say, you know if you’re just starting out with what this looks like, and trying to add value to people online, just pick one channel, one way to create content, and just kind of set a very simple goal. You know, if you’re wanting to write, set a goal for yourself to write one blog every other week to just kind of take, you know maybe you’re just taking the three points from your sermon and just kind of creating an encouraging exhortation to people in their life. Or maybe you’re taking just one point from your sermon, and just kind of like digging a little bit deeper, or maybe you’re just kind of talking about a general topic and providing encouragement to people from there. Or maybe that means that you want to just post one video on social media each week that is value-based and intentional.

Austin Savage: [00:26:47] And so, what that looks like is, it just is maybe you sitting in your office or sitting in your living room and you record a two-minute video about when times feel heavy, or talking about when you don’t know what to do in life, or when you’re trying to make a big decision, you know, like all of these things that everybody is navigating, it’s very valuable for you to just kind of think through that lens. And so what that does, though, is it gets you in the habit of creating content. So just starting on a small scale, it helps you stay consistent, you’re not going to quit because it’s not too complicated, you shouldn’t quit because it’s not too complicated. Maybe you will, but you shouldn’t. But it gets you in the habit so that as you start getting this perspective of just thinking through all of the different possibilities of things that could be turned into content, now you can kind of scale-up and you can start involving your team, because this doesn’t have to be all on you church leader or church pastor, it doesn’t have to be that you’re the one creating all the content your church creates. I mean, you have a congregation full of people who could create content, who could create videos that you share on your social media. You have a congregation full of people who could write articles that you could share on your website. I mean, this is not just for leaders even, it’s a way to get people involved in real ministry. And so I think it starts small, it starts with you just stepping out and saying, I feel comfortable doing this type of content. I feel comfortable writing articles, making videos, you know, even just sending out emails, whatever it is, and you’re thinking through that lens and staying consistent, and you can grow from there. So that would be my encouragement.

Bart Blair: [00:28:31] I’m going to give my parting shot, then, Jason, I’m gonna let you have a parting shot, and then we’ll let Austin have a parting shot. Here’s my parting shot, if you haven’t listened, if you’re listening to this now and you haven’t listened to the previous episode released right before this one. Jason and I interviewed one of our team members, David Thorne, on how to build a volunteer communications team at your church. What Austin just said, you have lots of people in your church, David, breaks down some real practical ways on how you can get volunteers involved in your church communications team. So take those two things, what Austin just said, what David said last week, and run with it church leader, there’s no excuse to not empower people. In fact, one of the things that David said that I loved was, when you don’t ask people to get involved in things, especially related to your church communications, you may be robbing them of an opportunity to use their gifts and their talents and to step into their calling from God. So, that’s my parting shot. Ok, Jason.

Jason Hamrock: [00:29:31] So listen, church, you got to go check out Austin’s website and engage with him. So it’s,

Bart Blair: [00:29:44] That’s a great name, you got lucky.

Jason Hamrock: [00:29:46] I love it.

Bart Blair: [00:29:47] You did get lucky there.

Jason Hamrock: [00:29:48] Yeah. So here, reach out to Austin. I mean this is, at Missional Marketing, we’re always preaching content, content is king in this space. It’s not the King, but it’s king in this space, and this content is incredibly important, and it’s stuff that you guys are creating every week. Lean on Austin on how to leverage, and how to use that, and hire Austin if he’s available.

Austin Savage: [00:30:13] I’m going to send them back to you guys, especially for churches, you guys are even better suited to serve churches on a practical level than I am, but I appreciate it.

Jason Hamrock: [00:30:20] Yeah, well, I think what you’re on to is so important. I mean, especially, I mean, I’ve been saying this for years, but especially since COVID broke, it’s like that’s where people just gravitate towards, it’s like they can consume it online.

Austin Savage: [00:30:34] Yeah.

Jason Hamrock: [00:30:35] If you’re not online, church, you’re not in front of them, you’re not building that awareness to get them on that, not buyer’s journey, but the discipleship journey, because that’s what we’re in it for, right?

Austin Savage: [00:30:47] Yeah, that’s true. So do I get to give a parting shot too? Is that how this works?

Bart Blair: [00:30:51] Yes. Well, I just made that up, we don’t usually do this, but I decided that will do this today, so here, you get a parting shot.

Austin Savage: [00:30:56] I thought that was like a tradition or something.

Jason Hamrock: [00:30:57] No, but it is now.

Austin Savage: [00:30:59] You should make it a tradition, it’s kind of fun.

Jason Hamrock: [00:31:00] I think we will.

Austin Savage: [00:31:02] Yeah, it’s like a little segment of your podcast. Anyways, I think honestly, my last thing doesn’t really have all that much to do about the practical side of content. But I mentioned, I am very passionate about people feeling confident in who they are, who God created them to be, and the value that they have to bring. And so I just want to say at the end of this episode, like, we talked about bringing value to people online, and how everybody has value to add to people. But I know, in my work personally, I talk to people probably every week who have ideas, but who feel like there’s no way that they are the ones who could bring those ideas to fruition, or who feel like they don’t have what it takes to make that a reality. And so I just want to say, just to close out this episode, that that is not true for you, church leaders, like you do have what it takes to do this, you have what it takes to engage with people online to add value to their lives, and you are uniquely suited to do that in a unique way. You don’t have to do it the same way that I do it, you don’t have to do it the same way that Jason and Bart do it, you can do it in a unique way that’s true to you, that’s true to your ministry, and that is still valuable to people. And so I just want to encourage people to not kind of shy away from their perspectives and their gifts and kind of hide those things from people, but instead to embrace those things and use those to make a difference in people’s lives because that’s how the world gets better.

Jason Hamrock: [00:32:24] Love it. Thank you so much.

Austin Savage: [00:32:27] Yeah.

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