Technology Can Improve Biblical Literacy | Scott Lindsey

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Scott Lindsey shares how Faithlife is leveraging technology to improve biblical literacy at any stage during your faith walk

Podcast Notes

Contact Scott:

Scott@Faithlife.com

Scott@Logos.com

www.Logos.com

www.Faithlife.com

Podcast Transcription

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Lindsay-Podcast.mp4-CO
Get this going.

All right. All right, so I’m going to jump right in here, just a second, and we’ll start by

Getting you to share your

Your story. Yeah. Did you just say we we do an intro? Yeah, yeah. I was looking at something else. Ok, cool. Pay attention. I’m trying. Look at my fantasy. I’m looking at my fantasy now. I’m joking.

All right. Here we go.

Hey, Scott Lindsey, thanks so much for taking the time to hang out with Jason and me today.

Good to be here.

Hey, I’ve been looking forward to having you as a guest on our podcast, and we’re confident that you’ve got a lot of great stuff to share with us today about your role at Faithlife, and the work that Faithlife is doing in the kingdom, in the church, globally. But before we get to the global impact of Faithlife, and all that you guys are doing, we’d love to hear your story. So why don’t you share a little bit about your background, and how you ended up at Faithlife, and in the role that you’re in today?

Yes, I’ve got the best job in the whole company, I think we’re pushing, I think last count five hundred and twenty employees, something like that. We have been around thirty years, so I haven’t been there quite from the beginning, twenty-four years for me. And I did eight years of Active Duty Air Force, and got out of the service to take a ministry position in Springfield, Missouri, and walked right into a church split getting ready to explode in front of me. And yeah, it wasn’t that fun, and I had already told Uncle Sam, see you later, so there was no going back to that again.

So my parents had retired to a little island in the Puget Sound, kind of all those little islands, kind of little north of Seattle between Canada and Washington state. So we got a U-Haul, moved out to be close to mom and dad, and lo and behold, there was this little Bible software startup in the town I happened to move to and I needed a job to put a roof over my head and feed my family. So, I showed up at their doorstep, I think at the time there might have been 15-20 people in a converted barn, and weren’t really looking to hire. But something happened when I met with the sales manager and he said, you know, I’ve never done this, but come back tomorrow and we’ll figure something out. So kind of started back in the day when you would buy software at a Christian bookstore, the internet hadn’t really become a thing yet, downloads and all that fun stuff. And yeah, it was twenty-four years ago, so it’s crazy. I’m in these Zoom meetings now with different departments at Faithlife, and I really don’t recognize hardly a single face in these meetings. But yeah, that’s a little of the story of how I got here, in a nutshell.

Can I get you to back up on that a little bit? So before we started recording, you said that you came to faith in Jesus in Arizona, I think you said at at at a military base. Jason’s in Arizona, that was kind of how he made that connection. So before you got out of the Air Force, like, did you become a follower of Jesus while you were in the Air Force or prior to that? Give us a little bit of that story, and tell us what made you think that getting into Christian ministry or Christian-related work was something that God was calling you to do?

Yeah. So I was the stereotypical crazy partying, active-duty enlisted, military guy, that was me. And yet, you know, my dad was an officer in the service, so I don’t know if it’s necessarily as much of an emphasis today as it was back when my dad was serving, but God and country was very big, and so church was almost required as an officer. And so we were faithfully at chapel every Sunday, but I wouldn’t say I grew up in a Christian home per se, because it was only on Sunday, right? But seeds were planted. And you know, I got away from Colonel Lindsey, you know, I jokingly tell people I was the only guy at boot camp that thought he was on vacation because I got away from my dad.

And, you know, after about a year of the crazy lifestyle I was like, man, this isn’t really all that. And somebody happened to invite me to an evening church service, which I’d never heard of church in the evening, so I was like, Yeah, OK, that’ll work. I can still sleep in and go to church, all right, let’s go. And it was an evangelism service, so what I didn’t know was you’re supposed to invite your unsaved friends to this one service, and I was that guy, and I heard the message and it rocked me. And I went forward, gave my life to the Lord, and the next morning I woke up and I was like, wow, something’s happened. And yeah, I mean, the real amazing thing was, within six months, two of my three roommates became believers because I was obnoxious about Jesus. I mean, I was like, my life is changed. I was the party ring leader on the base, and then now Scott’s not ordering kegs anymore, he’s wanting to get you to a Bible study, but yeah, that’s kind of my story. My wife was in the choir that night that I came to faith, and so we met through the college and career ministry and got married. And yeah, and then I ended up doing eight years active duty, and then just felt to call the ministry.

I’d been disciple by a pastor, and he had moved out to Missouri and called me one day right when I was going to re-up, and he’s like, hey, we think you would be a great youth pastor. Why don’t you come out and experience the church, meet the elders, and yeah, they offered me the position. But like I said, I didn’t know what was soon to unfold, but anyway.

Wow, that’s cool. I love hearing those stories. I just think, God, you’re amazing how you work. So you’re a testimony to God’s creativeness on getting you where you need to be, so that’s really cool. Ok, so many people around us are going, Faithlife. Ok, you guys have your fingers in lots of stuff, so give us an overview of all the different things that you guys do.

Yeah. So about 10 years ago our founder, he is now, his title is Executive Chairman Bob Pritchett, was at Microsoft back in the early days, you know, no one had really heard of Windows yet. I think at the time, he was Microsoft’s youngest program manager, like 16, 17 years old. But I jokingly say, you know, he had a pocket protector, not a social life. So you know, when when the nine to five job was done, you know, I don’t do anything, so he met another Christian at Microsoft and they used the labs…And you’ve got to think about this, there was no personal computing yet, really. So if you were a geek, you know, they would put a cot in your office at Microsoft. Like, if you don’t want to go home, just great, just stay right here. And so they did that, and they spent about a year and a half developing the first Bible software program. Obviously, the first right of refusal since it was created at Microsoft, it’s kind of theirs until they say otherwise. And so they met with the leadership and showed them, hey, we’ve created something that helps people study the Bible. And they went, It’s all yours, take it and get out of here, we do not want to be associated with that.

But I mean, think of the decision at his age, again, 18 to 19 now, with stock options, it looked like Microsoft was going to make it, things were really growing. And to step out in faith, the family, his mom and dad, literally cleared out the savings account and they all moved out to Washington and started this company called Logos Bible Software. And that’s what we did for 15 or so years, 20 years, and then Bob, about 10 years ago, said, you know, not only do we want to equip people to dig deeper into the Scripture, but let’s create technology for the full mission of the church, right, websites, and giving, and streaming, and discipleship, and all that. And I remember being in that meeting going, what, do we really, really want to mess with all that. And he’s like, yes, we really should, you know, let’s be a solution for the church. And so that’s when we changed the name to Faithlife. Now, Logos is one of about, I don’t know, 15 or 20 different technologies now under that umbrella. And it is the crown jewel, it is the brand most recognized with who we are and what we do. But you’re right, we are doing a ton of other things now.

Well, so how many churches do you guys work with?

Well, if you guys ever come to our office, which here’s your invite, come out. We’ve got this amazing campus, again, kind of offices in downtown Bellingham, but also in Chandler, Arizona, so we have offices in Arizona. But we have a counter when you walk into reception, that literally counts when anybody gets Logos, creates an account, and it’s at, I was in the office two days ago, it’s at 8.5 million and something now. Sometimes you sit there, and I mean, during the summer, it’s like a fan. I mean, it’s just like, I mean, it’s amazing, so 8.5 million accounts.

One of the exciting things to me is we’re also moving in other languages, so now Logos is in Portuguese, Spanish, Chinese, Korean, we just announced French has been released. But churches, kind of, that are adopting the more Faithlife, which again, is that other tech, oh, it’s tens of thousands. And COVID was really the reason for the absolute insane growth that we have seen in the last 18 months is largely due to COVID because, again, almost prophetic, Bob ten years ago, hey, you know, let’s create an ecosystem of technology so churches can do ministry in the digital age. And then COVID forced the issue, right? I mean, a lot of the megachurches are larger, tech-savvy, they’ve been doing this for a while. But you and I both know the average church is one hundred and fifty to two hundred that never thought they’d have to do online discipleship, online giving, or any of that. And we were ready, we were ready for that. So Yeah, last year, real, real crazy growth up to this point.

So why don’t you just reflect back on your time at Faithlife? You know, you mentioned earlier that when you started the internet was, it was kind of a thing, but people weren’t downloading software and that was kind of a new thing. And obviously, you know, in the last 15 or 20 years technology has changed so substantially, and even, of course, in the last couple of years, technology for churches has changed a ton. When you look at sort of what’s trended over the course of the last 10 or 15 years, and you look ahead to the next 3 to 5 years, what are the things about technology and church or church tech that actually gets you excited?

Yeah, you know, it’s funny, probably 15 years ago, I was working with a pastor, a good friend in Pittsburgh, and he pulled me aside one day and said, you know, Logos was created in answer to my son’s prayers. I was like, what are you talking about? He’s like, well, before I became a full-time pastor, I was an evangelist and I traveled, and I brought Joey with me, and guess what Joey’s job was? To carry dad’s books. So Joey had a big duffel bag, and Joey hated carrying dad’s commentaries and Bible dictionaries. And, you know, so he knows Joey was at his bedside nightly, going, Lord Jesus, please can we get away from these huge, heavy paper resources? So obviously we’ve seen that trend happen, right? You know, my job has become so much easier, you know, I primarily speak at conferences. But, you know, 15, 20 years ago trying to convince people that this e-book, this digital library thing, is probably going to work out, you might want to think about it. We’re there, right, we know that. And last count Logos has two hundred thousand books in our format, so two hundred thousand theological resources.

But even on delivery, you know, again, 15, 20 years ago, what was horrible about me speaking at conferences was I would have to ship five or six pretty large boxes of floppy disks, and then I went to CD ROMs and that. And now all of Logos on this little thumb drive, or download, I don’t even really need to bring anything anymore. Which also excites me because I feel this is one of the ways that we’re going to equip the global church. I mean, think about the cost savings not having to ship books or resources. I actually did a training two nights ago with a friend of mine in Zambia, so it’s his professors and students via Zoom, and I was able to deliver them Logos, what they need for their classes, in a single download. I mean, it was just again, I pinch myself because I don’t think anybody saw this, you know, 15, 20 years ago, but that’s where we are now, and it really excites me. That’s the best part of my job is helping people dig into the Scripture, and especially, equipping the global international church.

So are there concerns or missed opportunities, do you think, that churches are just not utilizing technology the way they should be? Because you’re in the tech space, and we’re in the tech space a little bit with what we do with churches, and sometimes as I talk to churches, I kind of want to pull my hair out, or I want to like slap them, you know, and go, come on, seriously, you are totally missing out on this opportunity. They’re going, Yeah, but Sunday’s coming, I gotta get ready for church, you know? Are you seeing any of that, where you’re frustrated?

You know, if you’d asked me that question two years ago, I would have a totally different answer. But I think because of COVID, you know, one of the things that I’m doing a lot is webinars. You know, I’ve been doing this twenty-four years, I think I’m at two and a half million miles on United. I have nine children, so let’s just put that out there right now, so I have five adopted, four biological, I want to be home more, right? I kind of feel like I’ve paid my time, you know, my dues are paid with regards to flights and hotels, but I don’t know if webinars would have even been a thing for me a couple of years ago. But because of COVID, we joked before we got on here, how many Zooms have we done in the last 18 months? Like, wow, so now we’re comfortable with it, right? So I think it’s becoming comfortable for the church to rethink ministry, you know, online prayer groups, online Bible study. But again, you know, it’s not an either-or for me, when I wake up in the morning, I’m the first one up, you know, I’m in Washington state, I want a cup of coffee that puts hair on your chest, like it’s got to be like as dark as dark can be, I want my leather bible, right, I want to feel the Scripture, there’s something about that. But for study, for discipleship, for getting quick answers right, you just can’t beat what digital brings to the table. And again, I think COVID is really causing churches to rethink that because they almost have to now, right?

Yeah, that’s interesting, so you’re you know, you talk about just getting up in the morning, spending time in your Bible, and I’m going to kind of lead you into a question that I’ve actually heard you kind of talk a bit about biblical literacy in some other podcasts, and I know that that’s something that’s near and dear to your heart. I was a pastor for about 17, 18 years, I was a senior pastor of a church for about five and a half years, and about three years ago, I transitioned into more of a para-church ministry role and I’m working with Missional Marketing as well. And so I became, after 17 years of being on staff in churches, I became like a layperson and I joined a small group in a new church and a new community. And I remember going and sitting in a men’s group that had been put together at my church and joining this men’s group, it was brand new men’s group. A great guy leading the group, and a bunch of men that I didn’t know, who most of them had just moved from different parts of the country all to this little area that I was living in. And I remember sitting around the first night that we met as a group, having a conversation about some Scripture, I think we were specifically talking about a passage that had been taught about in the church service on Sunday in the pastor’s sermon, and I remember sitting in the room being absolutely blown away by how under-informed this group of men was in the room. And it caught me off guard because I think what I realized is that for 17 years, I sat in the room and people maybe pretended that they knew more than they did, or I talked too much and I didn’t realize how little people knew. And then I got into a room where I wasn’t a pastor in the group, I was just one of the guys, and all of a sudden the scales fell from my eyes and I realized, these guys don’t read their Bible. And even if they do, I don’t know if they’re actually processing what they’re actually reading in a way that’s helpful and informative for their personal walk with Jesus, so that was kind of eye-opening for me. And again, because I know that you’ve talked about this in some other podcasts and this is near and dear to your heart. Why don’t you share with us a little bit about what you’re seeing in the world, what you know about, maybe particularly here in the United States, because this is where we’re all based and where we’re doing ministry. But what are some things that you see that concern you, or maybe encourage you, about biblical literacy in the US, and what you hope to solve as Faithlife? Like what things are you leaning into, and what are you hoping to actually help improve people with, in terms of their biblical literacy?

Yeah, so, you know, I’m prepping for this, you know, we’ve had Barna out here a few times working with us on things and working with us actually on some pretty large initiatives with some major denominations. And so I pulled up 2021, kind of their latest, and what’s interesting is COVID kind of forced people back into the Bible, right? It’s like, what’s going on, you know, I need the Lord, but what’s sad is, it’s declining again. So like, 2020 was like, everybody’s like, Oh, okay, you know, it seems like we’re in, and then we get other variants, and I don’t know. But it’s interesting to me when it got scary, you know, we knew where to go, to the word of God, and now that things are kind of becoming normal again, if you will, it’s declining again. So that’s a problem, right?

And one of the things that I like to start my webinars with is a fascinating study where this organization actually interviewed four hundred thousand people. I mean, this was a massive study, I don’t remember how many years it took, but four hundred thousand people on Bible engagement. Like what is the average person’s weekly intake of scripture? What does that look like, right? And what they discovered with something really profound, and basically, if we’re in the Scripture one time a week, it had a negligible effect on some very key areas of our lives, two times a week, negligible effect, three times a week, negligible effect. But here was the profound discovery, when we’re in the Scripture at least four times a week, it spikes off the chart. And that’s not what you would think, you’d think there’d be a gradual incline, like one time a week, no, it was one, two, three, pretty flat. But four times a week, this is what happens, feeling lonely drops 30 percent, anger issues drop thirty-two percent, bitterness in relationships, especially marriage, that drops forty percent, alcoholism drops fifty-seven percent, sexual issues such as addictions, maybe pornography, and things like, that that drops sixty-two percent. And then the one big stat, when I’m out there traveling and I talk with people, if I have the opportunity to have an honest conversation, one of the things I hear quite often is that I feel really distant from the Lord, I feel spiritually stagnant, that drops like sixty-two or sixty-three percent when we’re in the Scripture at least four times a week. So the study you can Google it, it’s called the Power of Four Bible Engagement. I mean, it’s a very scientific, a lot of smart people analyzing the data, and it’s saying something we know, we know we’re supposed to be in the word of God, but now there’s this kind of empirical data analysis kind of proving that we need to be in the scripture. Now, on the flip side, what’s interesting is sharing your faith jumps two hundred percent, and then discipling others, your family, your coworkers, those that you’re in ministry with so on, that jumps two hundred and thirty percent. So that’s why I do what I do, that’s why I want people to be in the Scripture.

Now, a very disturbing trend that I see, and I was actually just having a conversation a couple of days ago with kind of one of my spiritual papas, Josh McDowell, and he’s very concerned about this as well, that people are now, kind of it’s almost habit to, go to Google for theology, to go to Google for biblical answers. And we all know that is not a good place, right? I don’t know the nonsense that we would all get immediately if I type marriage, let’s just say, let’s just go to Google and type marriage, it would be atrocious, right? Not to say there are not great resources and ministries on the internet, but Google is not feeding you solid theology up at the top of the list there, right? And so that’s why I’m really passionate about Logos, not to say I agree with every single resource or book, but it is pretty trusted, curated, theological resources to get mom and dad those answers that happen at the dinner table, or to help you… You know, I have the exact same instance as you of being in a Bible study with a group of men going, through a very popular book, I’m not going to say the book title. Not not a bad book, but I was blown away at how many in the group thought, oh, this is absolutely the most…And I’m like, what, that’s like kindergarten theology. Like, I don’t, that’s blowing me away, and I didn’t douse their enthusiasm, but it was a kind of a light switch to me, like, whoa, like, you don’t really know much.

Wow.

Jason, I want to ask you a question, though, because something that Scott said, we talk about this a lot with churches. He said, don’t go to Google, right? Part of the reason we can’t go to Google is because churches don’t have any valuable content on their websites with actual legitimate expositions of biblical text, right? So, why don’t you talk a little bit about that, Jason, just because Scott sets you up for it?

Yeah. Well, yeah, so we Google it, that’s what we do, that’s what the world does. And Google owns ninety-two percent of the market share, so we talk about Google. And you’re right, when you Google stuff, no churches show up because they don’t leverage the content they’re creating to be found online. Yet, we have to go where people are, and so people are going to Google it. And it’s interesting because I use the word marriage all the time, I’m like, just Google it. Do you like what you see there? Now, you might, if you scroll further far enough down, you’ll see, some Christian resources in there from Christian websites. But the cool thing about Google, it’s a level playing field, right? If you take advantage of it, you can show up in Google, and you know, you can use a lot of the Google tools to do that. We love to educate and help churches understand that because if they’re not using the software, which would be amazing because you know there’s other ministries that we know that are phenomenal, phenomenal resources in ministry that’s biblical, it’s true, you know, points in North every single time. That would be amazing, but not everybody uses that, especially de-churched and unchurched people, and I’d rather have them find a church when they’re looking for, like, how to fix my marriage. Oh, that’s a church over there and they’re talking about this, they have content that helps us. Wow, they really care about our marriage and they’re not telling us to go get a divorce, right? So I love this kind of conversation because I wish we could take your software and just douse it all over the place in Google, because that would be amazing.

Well, so here’s the problem. Let’s just say that Google all of a sudden got it right on the theological side of things, right? So you type in, one of the things I used to do, I don’t know if it’s still true, but about four or five years ago, on stage at a conference, I would bring up Google and I would type Tabernacle, and the first hit was a nightclub in Atlanta called The Tabernacle. Ok, not what I need for my Bible study, right? So I was proving my point. I mean, even with a theological topic, I wasn’t getting theological content right out the gate, right?

But there are two things that I really appreciate about Logos is one, it’s kind of a new tool called a workflow, all right? And what a workflow is, is it’s a process, because here’s a problem, information is not enough if I don’t know what to do with the information. A lot of people don’t know how to study the Bible, Bible Study 101. I mean, what is a commentary? How would I even look at a Greek word? So what a workflow is, in Logos, is a step-by-step process, like we have a biblical person workflow, a biblical place workflow, a biblical topic, workflow. So let’s just say you’re new to the faith and the preacher says Ruth or David, and you’re like, you know, I’m vague on that person. You just type David in the biblical person workflow, and Logos, you don’t go anywhere else. In the document that comes up, the workflow, is all the steps on how to find out about David. Go to your Bible dictionaries, read the passages on David. But not only do we give you the step and explain the importance of that step, we bring the content into the step. So if Logo says, you know, go to your Bible dictionaries, you’re like, for one, I don’t know what a Bible dictionary is. Two, I don’t know how to get to them in Logos. We go, don’t worry about it, here they are. And then the other part is there’s a Q&A, so we actually ask you questions. So we’ll say, you know, after reading three articles that we’ve curated here for you, what do you learning? You know, what’s confusing? What’s challenging? How does this person, what’s their role in their significance here, and so on and so forth? So again, Google is not going to do that for you, it’s just going to barf, you know, one point five billion hits in a nanosecond. Yeah, thank you.

But then the second thing is, we live in a visual culture. I don’t think it’s enough anymore, even in the pulpit, you know, and I go to a very conservative church, we don’t really maximize the use of big screens and stuff. But I think with the younger generation, they learn with their eyeballs. And so one of the exciting things for me is in Logos, we have this amazing technology called Interactive’s where we visualize. So not just talk about and give you all the articles on Tabernacle, we’re going to show you the Tabernacle, we’re going to go into the Tabernacle. And when you do that to someone, especially again, younger, it’s a whole different ballgame.

Again, I used Josh recently, a little anecdote there with Josh McDowell. But I did a 10-year tour with Josh, and when I started showing Interactive’s, that’s when all the teenagers got real quiet, like, pin drop, like eyes glued on the big screen going, wow, I never knew the Bible came to life like that. Because again, you’re engaging their eyeballs when you’re teaching, which I think is so important.

Now, you guys, your primary audience would be churches, but do you have then, you know, people that subscribe to the software? And are you finding a lot of seekers, or people that are curious about the faith, or even de-churched or unchurched people? And what’s that look like? Tell us a little bit about what’s going on there.

You know, one of my favorite stories, again, I’m going to file the Guinness Book of World Records for most Christian conferences ever attended in the history of man, it’s got to be me. I don’t know, I seriously don’t know if anybody has beat me there. And it’s mainly because we’re about the Bible, so I’m the only guy that does a Lutheran conference one weekend, Pentecostal-Charismatic the next, Southern Baptist, three days later. I mean, just no one does that right? Which I love, I get to see the glory and the beauty of Christ and his body, you know, and it’s wonderful, it’s awesome. But I had an incident once where I spoke, and I think it was near Austin, a very tech-savvy city, a lot of tech companies and so on. This guy came up to me and he said, you’re busy, but when you’re done, can I talk with you? So finally, there was a lull he says, do you know what I’m not a Christian, my buddy invited me to this thing. I think it was an Apologetics conference, so his buddy was trying to, you know, win some arguments that probably he’s been having with this guy. And he said, listen, my whole life has been tech. I think he might have even had a Ph.D. in something really smart. And he said, you really messed with my head this weekend. I said, well, what do you mean? He says, well, when you got done, do you know what I thought about after you showed Logos? He said you guys are serious about this book, like, I can’t believe there are 500 people dedicated to making a tool. I mean, he was looking on the backside. He wasn’t on the front, you know, Bible and theology, he was like thinking of the man-hours, and the time, and the dedication. He says, and there’s only one reason why you do that, you believe this book is true. I am like, yes, that’s exactly right, we believe this. And he’s like, I think he even bought Logos, like, I’ve just got to have this technology because…And but now I’m also thinking way different about the Bible because I think prior to the event, he thought the Bible was just this mythical, you know, moral stories. And when he was like, I don’t know. I don’t know. I just thought that was amazing, that someone sees how serious we are about the Scripture, right?

But that’s one of the many, many examples. I love it when young people come up to me, or beg mom and dad at the Logos booth, to get Logos. And the mom’s like, I can’t believe Johnny uttered those words, right? You know, the mom hugs me for 30 minutes because Johnny wants to study the Bible, maybe for the first time ever. So I think, you know, this is an instance, there’s many in ministry, a lot of innovative ministries, doing amazing things, but I do think Faithlife and Logos is one of those examples of a group of people that are using their gifts to equip the church. And we’re not far from Seattle, they could be down making three or four or five times what they make a Faithlife with some pretty big companies down there, but really feel that they have the ability to dream in ones and zeroes for the glory of God. You know, I call them geeks for God. Praise the Lod, and I’m not. I am not a geek, maybe that’s why you guys are still listening to me. But I love it because, you know, the world thinks if you’re Christian, you’re stupid, right, you’re behind. I don’t think that’s the case in the instance of Faithlife, I really think we’ve been on the forefront of digital library science, and resources, and it’s exciting.

Oh, that’s cool.

Well, Scott, let me ask you one question. You’ve really kind of answered this, but I’m going to get you to kind of really put a pin in it with the way that I ask the question. What do you say to the person who for the last two decades has assumed that Logos is a tool for pastors to use in their sermon prep, and that’s it? You know, I go into my pastor’s office in 2008, and there’s a box on his bookshelf amongst all the books, that has his floppy disks or his CDs in it, isn’t this tool literally just something for pastors to use?

You know, that’s why we started, that’s the reason why initially Bob created Logos, and that was absolutely our focus. But I would say the greatest growth we’re seeing is the lay market, it’s average Joe, it’s soccer mom, it’s somebody that’s been saved a week or someone’s been saved 40 years going, like you said, I don’t really know anything. Like I’ve been in the church for 40 years, and I wouldn’t even be able to defend just basic doctrine, like` I need to step up my game, right? It’s interesting, I did a webinar a couple of days ago with one of the largest men’s networks, Christian Men’s Networks, and the way that we pitched the webinar was Bible Study 101, there was nothing in the marketing message that said pastoral, nothing. And we dug into Logos on just general Bible study, and we looked at interactives, and we did a couple of Greek words. And we had a guy that emailed, he was really upset. He said, I’ve been deceived, and I can’t believe I wasted an hour of my time. But he said this, Logos is amazing, but it’s just for pastors. And I was like, What are you talking about? Like, we didn’t, I never said the word sermon prep, I didn’t build a message, we didn’t do any PowerPoints or, you know, and Logos will do all of that, but it’s a tool, honestly, I think for anybody.

And one of the great things is, with that massive number of two hundred thousand books, whatever is your interest, apologetics, archaeology, maybe it is ministry, we almost have a thousand titles for anything that you want to know more about, Christian counseling, marriage and family, so I think the potential is there. And you know, if you’d ask that question about a camera, you know if you’d held up a Nikon or a Canon or something, but everybody’s a photographer now because of mobile devices, right? I mean, so yeah, maybe 20 years ago, Logos was that really high-end professional camera with the lens that was this long, and we still have that version, but again, everybody is now a photographer because of mobile devices and everybody can be a student of the Bible. And I think that’s a good point, too, is the mobility of Logos I think is a tremendous asset because there’s great confidence that I have when I’m at a coffee shop with someone, I can get him an answer. I don’t have to filter through the nonsense of Google, I can type in a topic or a passage and get some really good content for almost any conversation, or just for myself, right? There’s a lot of times I’m like, I need to know more about this. I just pull up my mobile device, and boom, I got an answer.

So churches can subscribe and use this, and then their congregation can have access to it? Or how are you structured?

Yeah, I mean, one of the benefits of this ecosystem called Faithlife, it’s called Faithlife Equip, is we will give Logos to every congregant. So I mean, the pastor gets the, you know, he gets the Cadillac with the heated seats and the nice trim and the super nice stereo. But we want everybody to be in the Bible, right? And again, that’s one of the great things about Logos, is you can start anywhere. You can start with just a single Bible in the app, right? That’s the most important thing to start with, right, is the Bible. But as you grow again, and here’s another point to bring out, it’s a lot cheaper, paper books are expensive, shipping’s expensive, paper books are expensive. I think somebody did the math on some of our libraries, I think you’re paying like $1.15 for a commentary series. I mean, if you just do the math on the price versus the eight hundred books that you get or something, I mean, where else can you get an entire 40 volume commentary set for a buck 15 or something? I mean, it’s impossible. So over time, you’re going to build an amazing theological library for a fraction of the cost, but we want to make it easy and accessible. I mean, your books, I have a lot of books, I have them in my office, I love books. But they stay here, when I walk out that door, they’re still here. So mobility is a huge thing to think about with regards to discipleship and Bible study and so on.

Well, Scott, this has been a really, really great conversation. I do want to get, I need to get the phone number and email address from your supervisor, I need to give him a call and let him know that you really don’t have enough enthusiasm about what you’re doing here with Faithlife. It’s just really, you’re really lacking energy and excitement. Yeah, you need to pick up your game. Just kidding, obviously, you’re super passionate about it, and I love that it’s infectious, and we really appreciate you taking the time with us today. If people want to know more about Faithlife, or maybe they just want to connect with you, what’s the best way for people to do that?

Yeah, they can email me, Scott@Faithlife.com Or Scott@Logos. Pick either one, I’m one of the long-timers that gets just their first name. You know, most everybody’s first name.last name, and all that. So Scott@Logos or Scott@Faithlife, go to the website, Logos.com. And yeah, I mean, I think it’ll be a little blown away, not only the resources but the technology. I mean, I used to get this crazy excited 15-20 years ago with where Logos was. And every new release, I am just floored on these new innovations, and new ways of looking at the Bible, and new ways of studying. But yeah, Logos.com would be probably the best place to go. And, yeah, I think you’ll be really blown away at what we’ve been doing for 33 years.

Wow.

Well, Scott, thanks again for hanging out with us today. We really appreciate your time.

Great to be here.

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