Managing Church Communications in a Fast-Growing Multi-Campus Church | Greta Rowell

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Greta Rowell shares her experience managing church communications for 3Circle Church, a fast-growing multi-campus church.

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Podcast Transcription


Jason Hamrock: Well. Hey, Greta. Welcome to the show. I am so glad to have you on. How are you doing today?

Greta Rowell: I’m great. Thanks for having me.

Jason Hamrock: Well, thanks for being here. So I’m excited about our conversation today. And, for everyone who’s listening, Greta is from Three Circle Church, and she’s going to speak into a little bit about Three Circle Church and this movement that’s going on there and how fast they’re growing because God’s moving inside this church mightily. So that’s going to be fun to hear about that. It’s going to be fun to hear about Greta’s story. But, Greta, just take a minute and kind of explain to our audience, like who you are and you know where you came from, and just a little bit about you.

Greta Rowell: Yeah. so I’m Greta, I’m 24 years old. I’m originally from a small town outside of Atlanta, Georgia, and I moved to South Alabama to be the communications director for Three Circle which is a multi-campus church down here on the coast. We have five campuses, and yeah, like you said, we are growing rapidly. I think we were recently named one of the top 100 growing churches in America, and I think the top three in Alabama, so it’s crazy what God’s doing down here.

Jason Hamrock: How fun is that to be part of that? It’s just, you know, who wants to be a part of a church that’s stagnant or going the wrong way? You’re part of the church that’s going the right way, up into the right, and more people are coming to know Jesus. How fun is that?

Greta Rowell: It is awesome.

Bart Blair: Greta, before you moved to Alabama to Three Circle, were you part of a large church before that or is this context new for you?

Greta Rowell: I was part of a, I would say, about a mid-size church. Yeah, it was definitely smaller and in a smaller town in Georgia. I was involved in the student ministry at the time, and yeah, I was an intern there for several years, and that’s kind of how I got plugged into the church side of communications.

Jason Hamrock: Is that why you got your degree in mass communications, then, and marketing?

Greta Rowell: No, actually, I think it’s a funny story. Let’s see, within, like, two years of going through, like, core classes and everything, I had flip flopped between majors and just could not decide what I wanted to do. So one day I was sitting at my little on campus job, and I was like, I don’t know what to do. I have to declare a major soon. And so I hopped on Google and I searched, for personality tests that will decide, like, what I should do for the rest of my life. And, so then I found a random test, I don’t even know what it was, but I took the little quiz and it told me that communications and marketing, I was best suited for that. So I was like, okay, sounds good.

Jason Hamrock: All right, let’s do it.

Bart Blair: So I can only imagine what other kinds of things could have come up and what route you would have taken. And I’m not even going to go down that road, because I’m sure there could have been some very interesting occupational options there. Yeah?

Greta Rowell: Yeah, yeah. It was, I mean, yeah, it was a God thing, I guess. I mean, I fully was trusting him and I was like, this sounds good, I guess this is what God has for me.

Jason Hamrock: Well, I’ve always said, and my team hears me say this all the time is that, you know, God’s gifted you, right? When you said yes to Jesus, He came inside you, His Spirit is in you, and He’s gifted you. And so whatever that is that you’re doing in life, if you’re getting joy out of it, that’s like the sweet spot, you know? And sounds like you’re kind of getting a lot of joy out of your job and what you get to do.

Greta Rowell: Mhm. Oh, yes, I love my job. People ask me all the time do you regret moving away from home? And I’m like absolutely not, this is the best decision ever.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah, you can see that.

Bart Blair: Can we talk a little bit more about Three Circle and just give us some context of what is Three Circle like? How is it differentiated from other churches that you’ve experienced maybe? And kind of generally what’s the ethos and the feel and the vibe of the church?

Greta Rowell: Yeah. So we have five campuses and each one is a little bit different, which going back to me being from a small town in Georgia, and the church that I grew up in, I didn’t even know what a multi-campus church was before Three Circle, I didn’t know that was a thing. But each campus is a little bit different, we have campuses in Fairhope, Daphne, Robertsdale, Thomasville, and Midtown, so all semi-close together, thomasville is the one that’s a little bit farther away, it’s about two hours from our Fairhope campus. But each one looks a little bit different. Fairhope is a little bit, I don’t know how to describe it other than, it’s a more, richer part of town, I don’t know how to say that. And then we have our Daphne campus, and I would say that mostly young families go there. Robertsdale is a little bit more rural, as well as Thomasville, but they are not on the coast. And then Midtown is in Mobile, which that campus is probably one of our most diverse campuses in the center of, I think, oh, I don’t even remember what square mileage it is, but it’s the most multi-ethnic, multi-class, and multigenerational area within Alabama, and our church is right in the middle of it.

Jason Hamrock: How have you balanced, you know, communications within each of those different campuses? Which is a different audience, right? So some are more affluent than others and maybe diverse, you know, just a lot of diversity going on with the different campuses. How do you message for each one of those? How do you figure that out?

Greta Rowell: So it’s still an ongoing thing that I’m learning. But yes, just recognizing that each campus has a different context, different audience, that’s just something to keep in mind every time we’re doing any kind of social media campaign or our weekly emails that we send out, our videos, just keeping that context just in the forefront of our minds, just thinking about who we’re targeting, who we’re talking to, that would be the most important thing.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah.

Bart Blair: Can I ask a quick follow-up question to that? Are your campuses video venues? So do you broadcast to all the other campuses, or is there live preaching at each location?

Greta Rowell: So for our Fairhope and Daphne locations, our lead pastor usually commutes back and forth on a Sunday, so we have our gathering time staggered, so we have live in-person teaching from our lead pastor at those campuses. Robertsdale is a video venue, with no live teaching. And then Midtown and Thomasville are primarily live teaching by those campus pastors, but occasionally we’ll hop on, and have a video teaching from our lead pastor there as well.

Bart Blair: Yeah. So it’s a combination of everything that we see in all churches, that’s crazy. Yeah, a lot to manage.

Greta Rowell: Yes.

Jason Hamrock: So going back to, I think you have to be really careful, and I think this is for everybody to understand when you’re writing something or you’re videoing something, you know, something that’s going to go out to not only your people but people in the community, that voice is really important to consider. Because you’re writing this down, going, is this going to articulate well to our audience? And, I imagine it gets a little bit challenging when you’re thinking about how do I write this for this particular campus and this audience, versus that campus and that audience? And that’s, well, that’s just part of the, you know, part of the game you have to play week in and week out to make sure that you’re communicating well.

Greta Rowell: Oh, 100%, and making sure that your content’s not just getting lost in the feed. I know I talked to some of our members at our Thomasville campus, and they straight up told me that they can tell, like, if something’s just kind of copied and pasted from our Fairhope campus, like, they’ll just scroll right past it, they don’t care anything about it. So it’s just making sure that what we’re posting applies to them as well.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah, way to go on recognizing that and, you know, making sure that happens. Now, for our audience, so you stepped into this role, there was already somebody who’s a part-time communication director, and you’re a big church, which is kind of like, I’m scratching my head going, wow, you know, a part-time comm director in a big, big church, you know, usually there’s a full-time person and a staff to go with that. But tell us a little bit about how you stepped into this role, and then how you put your own, you know, fingerprints on it.

Greta Rowell: Sure. Yeah. yeah. Whenever I came into the role, it was a part-time position originally. And, yeah, we were outsourcing a lot of things, social media scheduling, we weren’t putting out weekly emails, kind of keeping everything up to date with current events and everything. There were a lot of things that we just weren’t able to do with the time that we had, so when I came into the role, I kind of took back some ownership of that and took back our social media scheduling, which again, gave us the ability to kind of create that, more pertinent context per campus. And then I created the weekly emails that we send out every week, which we have branded The Weekly. So each one is specific to each campus, so that’s just kind of how I took back some ownership of that.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah, good for you. What’s been one of the biggest challenges?

Greta Rowell: Oh my goodness, cohesive branding between campuses. Yes. everybody kind of has their hands and everything with their own designs, ministries kind of taking ownership as well of what they’re doing. which is great, I love that. But then also trying to keep my eyes on it, and making sure that, like, logos are being used properly, that our dates and times are formatted the way that we want, and that Three Circle language is being used. Yeah, it’s a lot.

Jason Hamrock: It is a lot. Have you had to have some challenging conversations with ministries?

Greta Rowell: Yeah, I try and catch those at the forefront. If we’re bringing on new staff, just trying to have those initial conversations kind of walking them through this is how we do things, this is how we talk. If we have anything like printed materials, anything written verbiage wise, this is how we say things, this is how we format kind of thing. But we still run into challenges, so I just have to send friendly reminders. But then also, we have a brand and style guide too, that I can kind of slide in there and just say, you know, if you need a refresher, just take a quick look, it has everything that you need to know in there.

Jason Hamrock: Good for you. Yeah. so instead of saying, hey, this is out of bounds, you can just kind of move them down the road. I bet that’s been, that’s a challenge I think for everybody is…And I was saying, we were at a road show recently, one of our Church Communications Roadshows, and we were talking about a house of brands versus a branded house. And it’s always better to have a branded house instead of having all these things going on. And so there is a challenge, especially when you have multiple campuses and they’re at a distance, like you said, up to two hours away for one campus, that can be kind of a challenge for you. And so you probably have to work pretty hard at maintaining and building relationships so there’s trust there, you know, as you want to work and serve the ministries. Has that been your experience?

Greta Rowell: Yes, it has, but it has been good. I mean, our staff is very, we’re a very tight-knit, we’re like a family, so it’s not super difficult. But yes, especially, like bringing in new people, and just kind of building those relationships is super important to us.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah.

Bart Blair: Greta, can I ask a question, Jason? Greta, who do you report to on the staff? Are you reporting to an executive pastor or a creative director? What does the team look like there?

Greta Rowell: Yes, I report to our executive pastor of worship, creative, and communications. So, we work together a lot on projects.

Bart Blair: Okay, so when you’re working with your leadership team, and you’ve had a lot to do with building the communications team, what does the support that you’re getting from your senior leadership team look like? How involved are they in what you’re doing, and how you’re leading your team? What does your relationship look like in regard to those who are above you on the organizational chart?

Greta Rowell: Yeah, everyone is super supportive. I would say most of our staff, they understand the value of communication, so it’s not something that I’m trying to sell to them to get on board with the ideas and things that I have that I would like to run with, they’re very supportive in that way. But yeah, the executive pastor, his name is Zach. So we work together on lots of projects, and any broader church initiatives we both have our hands in it. We kind of just bounce ideas back and forth off of each other. Just, things that we like to try, verbiage, just kind of getting him to sign off on those kinds of things that go out to our entire audience.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah. I think that’s what Bart was asking there, and this is so important, I think just from the standpoint of any comm directors is to have that buy-in with the leadership. To try and build this on your own is not a good strategy, because you’re kind of out there by yourself on an island. And yet if you have the buy-in from the leadership to say, yeah, this is our brand guide. And so, you know, it’s coming from the top down, you’re going to have a whole lot more, you know, I think synergy and cohesiveness because you’re able to say, well, this is what the leadership has said, this is where we’re going as a direction. And you get to kind of drive that as the comm director. but it’s nice to have that buy-in from your boss and your boss’s boss and the whole team.

Greta Rowell: Yes, yes, that support is huge, definitely.

Bart Blair: Tell us a little bit about the team that you’ve built, you know, what was there when you got there? There was a part-time comms director, was there any other support for the comms team? And then what have you sort of assembled in the time that you’ve been there?

Greta Rowell: Yeah. So, I work closely with our creative director and our videographer, and those just creative teams that we have. We don’t really have any support staff under communications, we do rely on our volunteers. Our volunteers are great, they’re always wanting to jump in and help us where it’s needed. So, yeah, just kind of building those volunteer teams across campuses has been huge.

Bart Blair: What does that look like? What kind of volunteer teams, in terms of communications or creative, what kind of teams are you building and what specific skill sets are you actually leaning into with volunteers?

Greta Rowell: So, we have our little serve cards that we have, and then our digital forms as well, and just having those initial conversations, those meetings with volunteers that say that they’re interested. We have broadcast hosting, let’s see, what else do we have? Photography. Just anything that’s on the digital side, just having those initial conversations, kind of seeing what their experience has been, what their background is, but also what they would like to do, how they would like to assist us, and those are the teams that we’re trying to build right now. Especially between campuses, and building that context, that’s been huge.

Jason Hamrock: Do you guys have a lot, are you guys a heavy, event-driven church?

Greta Rowell: I would say so, yes. We have a lot of events.

Jason Hamrock: So how do you balance your time, you know, between, like, Sundays? Because, you know, it’s the most important thing we do is, you know, sometimes is just church, right? Because everybody kind of huddles together versus, like, broader church initiatives.

Greta Rowell: Yeah, it’s a lot. I would say that for Sundays, I spend like a little bit of time. I mean, it’s still a good bit, but most of my time is spent on the broader church initiatives. For Sundays, I focus on just handouts and formatting the teaching outlines, gathering pre-roll content slides, and things like that, any printed materials that are needed on a Sunday. And then scheduling those chat hosts. But then that’s kind of where my, I would say responsibilities for Sunday kind of end, and then I pick up all of the event promotion side of everything. So the digital media, digital marketing, social media, emails, texts, all of that.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah. Are you more task oriented or are you more on the creative side?

Greta Rowell: Oh, probably task-oriented.

Jason Hamrock: Go ahead.

Greta Rowell: Oh, I like to dabble a little bit in the creative side of it, but with just time and time constraints, that’s kind of hard. So I kind of watch my time and just give myself that freedom to be creative when I have the chance. But no, right now, I would say definitely more task-oriented.

Jason Hamrock: I think that’s interesting. Yeah, I think it’s important for people to understand their giftedness and their strengths. And so for somebody like yourself, you’re able to organize and get I mean, the weekend’s a pretty big deal, so you always have to make sure that is a pretty big priority. But it sounds like you’re really task-focused to make sure that’s in line, so you can have those moments of creativity for those other like church-wide initiatives or ministries or events that are going on, and it allows you to stay still in your joy and your sweet spot of making sure you’re tasking that out, but you can have some creative time, huh?

Greta Rowell: Exactly, yes. And staying organized is one of the biggest things with this job, too. I mean, we have so much going on, that it can be overwhelming at times. And you definitely don’t want to lose things or forget things in the process. So I have like three different sets of to-do lists, but yeah, just staying organized so then I do have that time where I can be creative when I want to be.

Bart Blair: I want to press pause there for just a second. If you’re a pastor or executive pastor listening to this podcast, and Jason and I have said this over and over again, I’ll go back to a quote from our friend Tyler Mount at Providence Church. Your communications director does not need to be a great graphic designer, they just need to know great graphic design when they see it. When you’re in a five-campus or even, you know, two-campus multi-campus scenario, if you’re trying to get creatives to manage all of the moving parts, you’re probably going to be fighting an uphill battle. Your best bet for a communications director in a larger church with lots of moving parts is someone like Greta here, who has multiple to-do lists and checks off her to-do lists, and is more of a project coordinator project manager type of person, rather than necessarily being the creative who’s generating all the creative ideas. Anyway, I just thought that was worth pausing on because that’s really important. She knows creative when she sees it. 

Jason Hamrock: Yeah, you have got to be able to manage the brand, it sounds like that’s kind of what you’re doing, and doing a good job of it.

Greta Rowell: Yes, that’s where I would say I spend most of my time is going through and looking at what other people have created and just kind of lending my advice, or just kind of critiquing, in that capacity instead of me being the primarily like the one that’s designing these. I can’t imagine also having to add that to my plate.

Jason Hamrock: Oh, yeah. What is your project management system that you use?

Greta Rowell:  We use Live Design. Is that what you’re asking?

Jason Hamrock: No. So, like Asana, or do you have, like, a base camp, or do you do something where you’re organizing all these projects, or do you keep them written down somewhere?

Greta Rowell: Yes. So through Live Design, the company that we, work with, we do use base camp, and we’ll just go back and forth on projects that way, that would be our main project management system.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah, I think that’s really important because you can kind of huddle around that to make sure you stay organized with all the things that you have going on.

Bart Blair: You brought up using Live Design and outsourcing some of your services there. Give us a picture of what you’re outsourcing versus what you’re doing internally in terms of creative and production, copywriting, graphic design, and video production. Like what what’s the balance there? That’s a question a lot of churches ask us, a lot is, you know, how much of this should we be doing in-house? Do I need to hire a graphic designer or should I outsource this? What’s the balance for you guys?

Greta Rowell: Yeah. So we do outsource a lot of graphic design, especially, with Live Design. So, any events that we have going on that need branding, any printed materials for the most part, unless it’s a last-minute idea or, a rush project, we do have our creative director who will assist us in turning things around in-house. But, for the most part, we do give a lot of our graphics, our branding, to Live Design to help us with. For video production, we have an in-house videographer who handles the majority of that. Let’s see what else…

Bart Blair: How about how about copywriting? Are you doing the bulk of the copywriting, or do you have somebody else who writes with you and for you? What does that look like?

Greta Rowell: Uh, so my boss, Zack, and I, both handle the majority of the copywriting. Yeah, it’s just us.

Bart Blair: All right, well, Live Design is not sponsoring this episode, but if there is anyone from Live Design who would like to sponsor future episodes, just give me a call and let us know. Thanks for the plug there.

Jason Hamrock: Well, and so I also see that you’re using MailChimp to send out your emails and things of that nature. And so, I’m guessing that really does energize you, you know, because you look forward to the week ahead because you’ve got these tasks that you get to see accomplished, and it’s playing into the bigger picture and the bigger vision of the church. And I don’t think we did this, but explain what Three Circle is, what is that, and what does that mean?

Bart Blair: Yeah, what does it mean?

Greta Rowell: Yeah, yeah. So Three Circle, our name comes from Acts 1:8, “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and all Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” So that is our Three Circles, our local, regional, and global circles. So we exist to make disciples locally, regionally, and globally. And then our vision is by reaching up in worship, reaching in to grow, and then reaching out to serve.

Jason Hamrock: I like that, it kind of reminds me of my three rings of audience that we talk about.

Bart Blair: We talk about three rings, not three circles, all the time, but they’re slightly different rings. Anyway, that’s cool, thanks for sharing that. Greta, what are you looking to, and who are you looking to, to learn to get better in what you’re doing? I mean, the reality is you went to college, you’ve got a degree, and you’re in the trenches of ministry now trying to apply what you learned. But obviously, things are moving at a very, very fast pace just in terms of your church growth and certainly communication. So what are you doing to just sharpen the saw to get better? Who are you listening to? What are you reading? Share some of those resources with us.

Greta Rowell: Sure. Yeah. So still being relatively new to the field, I’m still gathering a lot of recommendations for just how to better myself as a communications director. But this past November, I attended the Salt Conference. and that was very helpful, and inspiring even, not just from a creative perspective, but from a communications perspective as well, we focused a lot on AI and how that can help us as church communications leaders. And then I’m also part of the Church Communications Facebook group, which y’all told me a little bit about earlier, so that’s been super cool just to work alongside of other church comm’s leaders, just kind of seeing what they’re doing, as well as just kind of getting ideas for our own ministries. But that’s something that I really like about this field, being within the church and working with like-minded churches, we are all on the same team, and we are all ultimately working towards the same goal of reaching people for Jesus. So that’s something you don’t really see in the, I guess, corporate world versus church world.

Jason Hamrock: Not at all. Not at all. Great answers. I love that you’re tapping into the right markets there, especially the Church Communications Group, you know. So a little plug there for you all.

Greta Rowell: Right?

Jason Hamrock: Talk a little bit about how, because like the rest of us, I think you’re on this learning curve of using AI. How are you doing that?

Greta Rowell: Yeah. So it’s a lot of just trial and error I would say, that the talk that I sat in on back at the Salt Conference, we talked about just how kind of effectively to use AI, and just where it is right now and then where it’s going. But the most, I think, important thing that I took away from it was how to speak to AI, which was completely like a foreign concept to me. I was just typing in it like, this is what I want, please give it to me. And, Kenny Jang was actually telling us how, it’s helpful to ask, like, questions and just talking to them like they would be a ministry resident or intern, speaking to it kindly, but then asking questions, clarifying questions, so that it can most effectively create what we’re asking it to.

Jason Hamrock: Oh, well said. You know, and just another little added bonus onto that is we were just at an Executive Pastor Conference and Bart had a breakout session on utilizing AI in Google, but he’s speaking into the AI portion of it where I think we’re a little, maybe a little afraid or just not quite sure because we just don’t know. But the good news is that this is just a, we’ve got another guy on our team, David, who says this is the wild, wild west. It’s like it’s just constantly changing, the landscape is changing, how we’re using it is changing, and how we’re learning to use it is going to continue to evolve and change. But if used well and properly, it can really help you do a lot of things more efficiently and more effectively. It’s not supposed to replace you, it’s supposed to enhance you. And that’s a really important message because I think there’s some miscommunication about, well, we’re just going to send a bunch of robots running around doing ministry. No, no.

Greta Rowell: Right.

Jason Hamrock: I don’t think that’s the intention, it’s still human to human for sure, but we can utilize that stuff to get just more out of it. And I really love it, Bart had a great breakout where he was just talking about the efficiencies, and you can use this tool, or you can use that tool and it can do this for you, and I think it sounds like you’re on that learning curve right now.

Greta Rowell: Yes, yes, how to use it, and how to use it effectively and efficiently making my job more efficient, making it easier to manage my time, so I’m not sitting in front of my computer, just racking my brain. How do I write a social media caption? My brain can’t work anymore for the day, it’s used up all the creative juices. So, just effectively using that for it to be like my little assistant, kind of viewing it that way, rather than trying to replace me.

Bart Blair: What specific tools, can you share with us 2 or 3 tools that you have been experimenting with? And what degree of effectiveness are you finding with those tools?

Greta Rowell: Yeah, Well, I’ve used and then ChatGPT, so they’re both very similar. But I kind of use them both at the same time and just kind of compare what I’m getting from each one. So the generative AI side of it is just mainly being text-based. But yeah, that’s how I’m using it.

Jason Hamrock: I’ll throw one out there that you might want to try, and this is for the audience as well, is also Claude, so That one actually picks up your voice pretty well and does a really good job if you take like a YouTube transcript of a sermon and you say, write a 1500-word blog summary about this sermon, and you add some prompts in there, it is really, really good.

Greta Rowell: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Bart Blair: I love Claude.

Jason Hamrock: [Inaudible]

Bart Blair: I love Claude. I love Claude so much that I actually last week finally bit the bullet and went with the subscribed version, which for those of you who have used ChatGPT three, there are some limitations there. If you go to the subscription version of ChatGPT four, there’s just a wealth of new stuff and different stuff that you can do in ChatGPT four. Claude is not quite the same way, it basically just gives you more queries that you can use, and you’re limited to how many times you can use it a day. But, you know, at 6:45 this morning, I took an audio recording of a conference session that a friend of mine did five years ago, I took the transcript of that audio recording, threw it into Claude, and asked it to write a 1500-word blog post at the reading level of a 10th grader. This is one thing I always tell Claude what reading level I want the copy to be written at, otherwise, it always seems to be really high level, but if I get really granular that way, I get really good copy. And I took that and then massaged it to make sure that some of my friend’s language was in it and in less than 15 minutes, I had a 1500-word blog post that he could use on his website. And it was, I mean, really quick, really easy, I did it before I even had my third cup of coffee this morning, you know, that’s probably saying a lot. I was up I was up pretty early, 6:45. I was up about 5:45, but I did it at 6:45. Anyway, love, Claude. We should probably wrap this up. Jason, do you want to lead our plane landing here?

Jason Hamrock: Sure, sure. You know, I think, Greta, it’s just really cool to see young talent that’s quickly getting it. And, we’re kind of old school, we’ve been around for a long, long time, and it’s neat to see somebody that’s picking up the torch and carrying it further, utilizing some of these great tools. And you’re quickly getting the importance and the essence of running an effective communications department, and you’re tied into a really healthy, growing church, so a lot of great out of it. If anybody wants to connect with you, how can they, you know, find you?

Greta Rowell: Sure. Yeah. If anyone would like to connect with me, you can always reach out to me via email. I’m also on social media @Gretapage, no, I in page.

Jason Hamrock: There we go. Well, thank you very much for taking some time just to speak into your world and what you’ve got going on. And it’s a blessing, so thank you for hanging out with us.

Greta Rowell: Yeah. Thank you all.

Bart Blair: We do thank you, Greta. And for those of you who’ve been listening or watching this podcast episode, we want to thank you too. If you haven’t yet subscribed, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, make sure that you do that. If you happen to be listening to this on Google Podcasts, you know Google Podcasts is going away, so you better find another platform to listen to this podcast on, like Stitcher, or Spotify, or I don’t know, there’s a whole bunch of those out there, but if you’re listening on Google Podcasts, you will not be getting our episodes for too much longer. Anyway, thanks again for tuning in to the Missional Marketing Podcast, and we’ll see you next week.

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