Keys to Longevity as a Church Communications Director | Brian Dunaway

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Brian Dunaway of Cross Church, a veteren of church communications, shares on keys to longevity in ministry and much more.

Podcast Transcription

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Well, hey, Brian, welcome to the show. We are so glad to have you on today. How are you doing?
I’m doing well. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. I am super excited to have you on board. You’re a director of communications at a pretty large church, so I can
relate well because that was my background, I spent 11 years at a megachurch here in Phoenix. But share with us a
little bit of you, your background, let’s talk about Cross Church and just kind of fill in our audience.
Sure. Yeah. I, again, happy to be here. I feel like, I don’t have a lot of…Y’all are well beyond my years of doing this, and
so I’m excited to learn from you all as well. But, yeah, I’ve been in this position for about 12 years. I have kind of a
unique situation where this is home for me. So, my parents were married in this church. I grew up in this church, under
one pastor the entire time, was saved in this church, baptized, all of it. I met my wife here, and have had one of our two
kids here, and just kind of grew into this position, I guess. So I was an intern, you know, we’ve all done youth
internships, and I was in student ministry and that kind of, you know, I was doing everything from, setting up chairs to
cleaning bathrooms to mowing the student pastor’s lawn. And I thought, how is this, what this is all about? But, you
know, you get 25 years removed from that, and you turn around and you go, okay, it didn’t matter.
But yeah, so I was an intern, and then we started our second campus. We just were one campus for a lot of years. the
church, the original church, we just passed the 150 year mark just a few years ago.
That’s cool.
So a lot of history. And, then we started a second campus. I went to college in the area, stayed as an intern, and then
out of college was the media director for our second campus. I did that for a couple of years and then took a little bit of a
break and did some other production, my background is in production. And then fast forward about eight years later, I
got a call to, what I say, come home. And, I actually came back as the IT director, which I had zero qualifications for
that. I do love people and I love the relationships, and so they just brought me back to kind of bend the mold of
stereotypical IT, but I really had no idea what all that meant at a church this size. I was just like, yeah, I’m ready to come
home, so we took it.
And, fast forward there to about six months later and the guy that was doing communications, he decided his calling
was somewhere else, and the executive pastor set me down and said, we know your background and we want you to
do this. I had just come out of a church, it was a great experience, but I was kind of over all the production stuff. And I
said, I don’t think I really want to do that. And, he said, do you want a paycheck? And I said, I do want that, so sign me
up, I’d love to do this. It wasn’t quite that. Yeah, so fast forward 12 years and my role is, my title is Director of
Communications and Technology. So we’ve just kind of developed this weird, mushy deal where I’m like the IT director,
8 Media guy, and the communication director is all under the umbrella of my office. But first off, I want to say that I have
a team around me that can do a whole lot of things that I cannot do. And so, like, that’s how I say I just kind of fell into
the position.
Yeah. I can relate though. You surround yourself with talented people. How did you surround yourself with gifted
people?
Well, I mean, only God, God brought people our way that I didn’t know from parts of the country I didn’t know. And, you
know, looking back, as we all do, it’s just like, how did this happen? And you can only say God was in control. And, if
God wants you to do it, and he’s got it planned, it’s going to happen. And so, the church is Southern Baptist, and we
have this, you know, the Southern Baptist world that we live in. The church has been, over the years, pretty nationally
spotlighted when Ronnie Floyd was the pastor, and we were on national TV, and sometimes international TV, and
Ronnie Floyd was involved in Southern Baptist life. And so all that to say, there was connections that some of our other
staff had. As soon as I took the job one of our staff members, Buster Pray, he was a worship pastor here for years, and
he said, I know a guy in Atlanta. And I was like, great, because I’m dying on the vine here. So I called John Phillips, and
we did some interviews over the phone. He flew in, we talked. I was like, you can do a lot of things I can never do. Do
you want to take the job? And he and I’ve been together ever since. And then just stuff like that, so just trying to be
connected and make connections and build relationships. We now hire a lot of kids out of college and realize that we’re
probably going to have them for a couple of three years, and so we use that as kind of an onboarding, you know, jumpoff
point for some of these kids, and it’s really worked well. So we have 3 or 4 foundational team members in different
parts of the ministry that we know we’re going to hire these kids and then hopefully send them off to do bigger and
better things.
Brian, what are some of the specific roles that you have with some of your long-time team members who are kind of
anchoring the team with you?
Yeah. So like John Phillips, I just mentioned him, he is over our video and social media platforms. He’s got two guys
that work underneath him doing all the video production that that we see in the church, all the exterior social media
stuff, he’s a great graphic designer. I wouldn’t say I planned it this way, but I’ll stop and say that we have
unintentionally, intentionally hired, a jack of all trades. And so, you know, you guys understand that in the church world,
you might be the music guy and the tech guy, and it’s just how it works. And so John is great, he has his niche, but he is
great at a lot of things like graphic design. So we have this team, we have graphic designers, and that’s pretty much
what they do. But John is one of those guys that he can build awesome graphics, he can do great videos, and then he
can sit in a seat in the production world and run a soundboard or pro-presenter for us. And we try not to mesh those all
together, but when they do meet, when it’s necessary, it’s really helpful.
Our guy, who’s our IT director, has been with me for the 12 years as well. I inherited him, and he’s grown into a position
where, you know, you think IT and you think that the guy that sits at the keyboard all day, and he is actually one of our
lighting designers in the production world. Now, how weird is that, that if you go back and think of Dilbert at the
computer in the old comics, you’re like, that dude runs your lights. But God’s gifted him in different areas, and we’ve
really tried to mine those giftings and utilize them if their heart is there to do bigger things.
So we’ve got John, and we’ve got, what we call global, we use the word global that looks over all three campuses. And,
Justin was one of those guys early on that, our worship pastor said, hey, you need to hire this kid. And now he’s not a
kid anymore, he’s married and has two kids of his own, and he’s got a heart for ministry and people and production,
and so he’s one of our staple guys. I tell him all the time, if you leave, I’m right behind you.
Then Chase, our IT director, he’s one of those staple guys. And so those are, like, foundational members. My assistant
Sandra has been in the church forever and ever since I was probably little, but she brings so much wisdom, and she is
so detailed. Y’all know creatives are just not very detailed a lot of times, you know, the tracks and the train do not
always go together with those kinds of people, but you got to have them. And so she’s our detail mama that keeps
everything on the straight and narrow.
Yeah. You know, I want to go back to like you’re mentioning the guy that oversees video and social media and that’s
very interesting these days because really social media is all about, you know, short-form video and reels, that’s how
you use social media, right? And to have your video team be a part of that, in fact, to oversee it is a really good
strategic move.
Yeah. And again, I’d like to take credit for that, but he just kind of fell into it. He’s like, hey, I think we…You know,
because we were all kind of babies when we started this, like, he came in here and he turned 30, and I was just a little
over 30. and so we didn’t really know up from down, and we just kind of grew into it. And you’re right, I mean, video is
driven to social media by short form and those guys just run with it. So he’s got two guys underneath him that just really
gravitate towards that, and it’s really exploded our social media presence.
Yeah, yeah. You know it’s been really cool to see, when I talk to comm directors who’ve been there, you know, you’ve
been in your seat for a minute. So you’ve been able to understand the culture of your church and then just figure out
how to how to staff and move people to what works best, not only for the, for the people that God’s brought, but it’s also
then how you’re serving leadership and understanding where what we’re trying to achieve as a church. And I think
that’s probably some good advice for comm directors listening in, is that you said this earlier, Brian, you didn’t do this,
God brought all these people, but it always starts with, I know a guy it seems like.
Absolutely.
And then understanding how whatever God brings to you, there’s a reason and there’s an intentionality for that to
happen. It sounds like that’s really how you’ve really carved this department.
Yeah. Looking back, I realized I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And again, all the glory to God for just keeping me there
and letting me fail forward, and still don’t know what I’m doing. And we’re just making it up as we go, asking God to
bless it and be in his will, and so far he has. And we have a team that is, the intentionality of building the team that I
could say went before me is I wanted a team that wasn’t ego-driven, that was very servant-minded. The production
world, the creative world, and the worship world, that’s a lot of ego, just naturally. I mean, those guys, the creative world
is very ego-driven, right, wrong, or indifferent. You know, it’s in the Bible that way, Satan was a worship pastor, and I tell
our worship guys that all the time. Do you know who was a worship pastor? No. But even in our worship ministry, we’ve
fallen into this deal and intentionally unintentionally, where we want a culture of servant-minded humble people. And I
think God has really honored that, I don’t think, I know, because you don’t have all this, well, I know better. And they can
work with the ministries of the church, and especially in a multi-campus situation where if you have one kids pastor, you
have three kids pastors, you have one student ministry, you have three student ministries. And so we’re constantly
battling that, and we really need to have people on our teams that can put themselves in the back seat and work with
other people.
Yeah. So 12 years on the job, how have you kept yourself from burning out? Or maybe you have, I should have asked
that question.
No, I love it. I love the church. I love this church. People say, you know, would you go anywhere else? I mean, they
have to call first, nobody’s calling. So, you know, I’m just kidding. No, I’m kidding, but I love Cross Church. I don’t know,
I haven’t been asked that question. I don’t feel…First of all, I think we use the word burnout too much. I think that that’s
an overused word, but that’s a whole other podcast. I think there’s a lack of, probably some degree of lack of work ethic
and lack of understanding of what we’re trying to accomplish. Again, another podcast. I don’t know, I just, I love, I love it,
I love it. There are bad days, it’s work, but I never have had a problem, and I can’t say that this is how it is everywhere,
but when you’re doing what matters and you believe in what you’re doing, you’ve got a lot more longevity than probably
somebody that doesn’t believe in the mission, doesn’t believe in what they’re doing. And, yeah, so I saw an interview
once with a quarterback that, he got hurt, he came back and went to another school, and he said, they said, how do
you do this? And he said I play every down like it’s my last. And I don’t know how long this season’s going to last, I
mean, 12 years is a long time anywhere, doing anything, and if tomorrow’s the last day, I want to know that I played
every down like it was my last down. And that fuels me because seasons are just that, they’re seasons, and they come
and they go, and I love the season I’m in. I love where my kids are at, and they’re involved with me in the church, and
the family’s involved, and we just roll. And so that doesn’t answer the question, but…
Me, let me ask a follow-up to you there, Brian, because I think, you know, a lot of times when we talk to people who
have had what we’ll call burnout experiences, even though we’re overusing that word, I think they’re real.
I think they’re real. Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Oftentimes when we’re talking to people who have been in situations like that, a lot of it stems from the culture of the
organization that they’re in, that the organization as a whole does not have a healthy rhythm of ministry and life. So tell
us a little bit about your relationship with your senior leadership team. How do you work? We’ve talked a little bit about
the team that you lead, let’s talk a little bit about those who are leading you, and what do you think it is that you guys
are able to do in your relationships with each other that keep the culture healthy for you and for the rest of the team that
you lead?
Yeah, that was a good question. I don’t know that I have a ton of experience, so there are probably listeners that are
gonna be like, yeah, you just don’t get it. But we’re in a very great season culturally, a very healthy season culturally. So
Ronnie Floyd was the senior pastor for 32-plus years, and I worked hand in hand with him for five years solid doing it
all, I was traveling with him, and I was with him all the time. I tell people that I got to a point where I could almost speak
the next word of his sentence. Now, five years ago, Nick Floyd, his son, took over, and that’s a whole other story that’s
incredible. But he was the succession plan, and Pastor Ronnie went off and did a couple of other things. And so Nick
and I actually grew up together, which was interesting. And now his Executive Pastor, Ryan Blackwell, we all grew up
together. So it’s just this weird, unique situation, and I don’t know, again, that I have a lot of authority to speak on it, but
they’re very much driven by healthy culture, having, you know, one-on-ones and making sure people are in the right
headspace. Their walk with the Lord is strong, and it’s not this I’m over you mentality, and you have to be subservient to
me, it’s we’re kind of flat. Obviously, he’s the boss and I’m going to do what he says. but we have conversations, we
can speak openly. We don’t have to, you know, hide behind anything and, you know, have these unhealthy
conversations behind a closed door that help us feel better for a minute, but don’t accomplish anything. And so I am
probably one of the rarities that says we have a great culture, and really, I couldn’t tell you one person on staff that I just
can’t stand. I mean it’s just a great season of the church. So I don’t really have a lot to offer in that, other than that does
attribute to longevity, and so I apologize if I was too harsh in that over the burnout comment, but I do think it is real, I do
think it is real. It has not been real to me and therefore I can’t speak to it, but I think that there’s a generation behind us
that uses that word as an excuse sometimes.
As the director of communication, how do you know what a win is?
Oh, gosh, you didn’t say you were gonna ask me hard questions.
Sorry, you are a seasoned comm’s director.
See, I told you he wasn’t going to stick to the script. He did not stick to it.
That wasn’t on the list. Well, you know, that’s a good question, and it’s a hard one to answer. I feel like…Let me say
this, I tell our team all the time that there is nothing that we do that is going to grow the church, that that’s up to God. We
are just a small piece, we’re a tool and an avenue that helps further the Gospel. I think that is good to keep in mind. As
far as a win, I think when people aren’t walking around going, what are we doing? Where are we going? What’s the
purpose? That’s a win, and if we miss that mark, then we’re not winning. So there’s been times when people aren’t
communicating well, either in the walls or outside the walls, and that directly affects attendance, engagement, and that
kind of thing. But that’s probably, how does it resolve, and are people walking around looking like they don’t know
what’s going on? That’s how I kind of gauge it, I guess.
Yeah, I’ll answer because, you know, I sat in the seat for 11 years, and I had these little, I kind of defined them as the
micros and the macros. So the micro ones would be, hey, you know, we were able to, you know, get everything out on
time and there were no typos, and week in and week out we hit our deadlines and stuff like that. We were serving the
ministry. So those were the micro wins, and yet that didn’t bring me joy. What brought me joy were the macros. When
I’d sit in church and I’d watch baptisms take place and I’d see just, you know, I’d be literally crying as you are watching
two young kids baptizing their mom, for example, and you’re going, only God, you know, and I got to be a part of that
now, I got to be a part of that because I’m part of the team. And I don’t know where I am on that journey of that family,
but I know I got to play a role in it. And I think that for me, it was the end of the, I don’t want to say the end of the line, but
it’s when you see somebody giving their life to Jesus, you’re like, that’s what brought me joy and I celebrate that with
my team, even though we maybe only had a little tiny part in it. Those were the macro wins for me, and that was just my
joy. So I needed to always tap into that because that kept me going, that kept it fresh. You know, we do go through
cycles and seasons, right? That’s the church ministry calendar year; it just rotates over and over and over again. How
do you find the win and how do you find the joy in what you do?
You know I’m going to use that. See, thank you for that. I’m going to use that next next comm team meeting.
Think about, you know, I think about any, and Jason, you played you played football, and I played a little bit of sports.
Brian, I don’t know if you were a sporty guy or not. But you know there’s the fundamentals of every sport, and you
know, being a football player, you’ve got a block, you got a tackle, you got to do the basic things. And that doesn’t really
matter how well you do those things if the team doesn’t accomplish the team goal, which is to win the game, it’s always
a little disappointing. Very few athletes play the game for individual accolades, and I bring this up, Brian, because one
of the things you clearly emphasized in your culture is having a team of people who don’t live with ego, who don’t do
their work because of ego, that they’re there to serve the church as a whole. And that really, it sounds like it sounds like
a top-down cultural component, a value in your organization, that really resonates with me. I appreciate you sharing
that.
A 100%, yeah, 100%.
Share a little bit with us about just sort of, what a week in the life of you and your team actually looks like. What are the
major pieces that you do have to accomplish each week? And maybe what are some of the systems and processes
that you have in place that actually enable you to get maybe those micro wins to make sure that there are no typos?
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Sundays always coming in this world, and then there’s the big Sundays, Easter,
Christmas, VBS, all the events surrounding that, that make up the church calendar year, and it’s pretty typical across for
all of us in all the church world. You know, we try to, so the way our structure is, is we have a leadership team of about
12, 14 guys, and I have the privilege of sitting on that team. And so that’s our Monday meeting, so we come right out of
Sunday and we go into that meeting Monday afternoon. And that’s where campus pastors, myself, our financial guy,
and the senior pastor, all sit in that meeting. We go around, we have an agenda, we talk about what we need to talk
about for the week to come, talk about what we need to for big events that we have on the plate, you know, that kind of
stuff. We pray together, we spend a lot of time praying together. And, out of that meeting, then I turn around and go into
our communication team meeting, and we hash out what’s coming up. So I’ll learn a lot of things out of that meeting,
and I go straight into it with my, you know, the ink’s barely dry on the notes, and I say, hey, these things are coming up,
these weren’t on our radar, now they have got to be on our radar. So we spend the first 2 or 3 days really trying to hit
the next Sunday. In the middle of that, obviously, there’s a student event, or there’s a college night event, or there’s a,
you know, social media post that has to happen. And where we are now, I don’t have to be in the weeds of that as
much, those guys kind of drive that, so John drives a lot of that stuff already. We’ve been together so long and we don’t
hash out all the little minutia things, but, yeah, I would say that weekly, that that’s kind of the rhythm. And then by
Wednesday afternoon, if we’re not pretty well wrapped up for Sunday, then something is wrong, as far as you know,
crossing the T’s and dotting the I’s, we have a process in place that everything that goes out goes through three levels
of proofing. There is nothing that I hate more than misspelled, bad grammar, and I am the worst one too. I can’t do it, so
when the team will send me something to approve, I will say in quotes it looks good. That means I did not read it in its
entirety and do not say that this is a sign-off, this is not a sign-off. Send it through proofing and make sure all the things
are right, but as far as the layout, it looks good. But we’ve identified about three ladies in our church that God has gifted
them with the gift of proofing, and they’re not necessarily on our team. but they’re part of the staff, and they work well in
that environment, and they see everything from sermon slides to stuff that goes out on social media. We don’t do a
bulletin in the traditional sense, but on our app, we still call it the bulletin. The digital bulletin has to go through all the
proofing mechanisms, and that’s across the board. So they all have to see that, they’re reading constantly, and I’m
reading as little as possible on that stuff. I can read it, but I’m not going to tell you if that period or that comma was in the
right place.
Yeah. How far ahead do you guys try to get with projects and stuff?
So Nick, the senior pastor, Nick Floyd, is out probably 6 to 8 weeks on sermons, which is awesome, and he can be
months at a time out. He and the teaching staff, they will come up with a sermon series a year in advance, so we know
the direction for like, graphics, and stuff like that, and we can start working on that. It just varies, that’s a tough
question.
There are a whole lot of comms directors right now that are crying. They’re crying because if they can get their pastor to
work eight days out then…
Oh, I know. I know, I know. Yeah, it’s just a mixed bag, it really is. And so, you know, what I’ve had to do is just learn
who works ahead and who doesn’t work ahead, and we try to build margin within that framework.
So we own the Church Communications group as well as Missional Marketing, and so we run that one as well. And
that’s comprised of a lot of people, we’ve got a Facebook group of about 34,000. And what’s interesting that we’ve
learned over the years is that the turnover in the comms department tends to be kind of high, like they’re they’ll stick
around for 2 or 3 years, and then they chase more money. And that’s okay, there’s nothing wrong with that, you know,
people are trying to climb the ladder, if you will. So what kind of advice, as somebody who’s been in your seat for 12
years, what kind of advice or wisdom would you speak to a fairly new comm’s director who’s probably sat in the seat
now for maybe even just a few months? What should they be preparing themselves for, and how can you help them?
Yeah, that’s a good question. I think that one of the big pieces that a lot of people miss is you have to get to know the
leadership. Whoever is above you, you need to be in lockstep with that. And I will say from just five years ago
experience, like I said with our former pastor, I could think for him. And even though I grew up with his son, it was a very
difficult transition. Not because of him, but because I tried to take that mentality into this relationship and it did not
necessarily translate. So we had to learn about each other, and I would say that you have to be a student of the culture
that you’re in. And that is probably when I hire people, I say you have to have a baseline ability to do what I’m asking
you to do, and you have to be an incredible student of culture to work at Cross Church. And I think that translates about
anywhere, if you’re not going to be a student of the culture of where you’re at, you’re probably not going to make it
because you’re going to be pushing your own ideals and your own expectations on something that’s probably not going
to change. And I’ve watched a lot of people come in and people on my team who have wanted to be a culture changer
and they’re doing it for the wrong reasons, they’re doing it out of selfish ambition, and they fail, and they leave
frustrated because they weren’t willing to give being a student of the culture an opportunity. So a student of the culture,
a student of your leadership, understanding what they want, drinking it all in early on gives you a lot more runway. So if
you say, okay, that’s how he thinks, that’s how she thinks, that’s what he wants, that’s what he expects, and it’s work
because it doesn’t just fit. one size does not fit all. So how our executive pastor thinks and how our senior pastor thinks
they go together a lot, but when they don’t, I’ve got to learn that so that when I see these different places where they’re
going to differ, I can go, okay, Ryan thinks that way, and Nick thinks that way, and this preschool lady thinks this way.
And so that that understanding of how people operate will, and I’m not talking like, we spend a lot of time with
personality tests and what the makeup is, and I think those are very important. I think they can help you on the initial,
but you gotta really deep dive relationally. So I think that’s my advice, I think building relationships with people, this
communications department is not necessarily built on relationships. It’s like, what can I do for you? What do you need
me to do? I’m just a cog in the wheel. And so I really push our team to build relationships with people because the
relationships will build an umbrella of grace past we didn’t make the deadline, you know, when you have a relationship
with somebody, you can wade through a lot of water.
That’s that’s worth its weight in gold right there, people. is to be a student of the culture. You might have the greatest
ideas, but as you said if it goes against the culture and the leadership, you are not going to last. You’re either going to
burn out or get fired. I mean. And I have seen that time and time and time again, and it blows my mind. So very well
said.
Typically when you’re joining the staff of not just a church, of any organization, you’re agreeing covenantally to become
a part of that community and a part of that culture. And I think that’s especially with younger staff members, younger
leaders, people who are earlier in their career, they don’t necessarily always recognize that it’s not just a job that you’ve
been hired to do, but it’s a community that you’re being asked to fit into. And, I mean, I had little flashbacks, you know,
when you were talking about people who’ve come in and are trying to change the way things are because they have an
ideal about the way that it should be, and maybe in their interview process or in their job search, they weren’t as clear
on the fact that they were walking into something that was already established. And if you’ve got a 150-year-old church
that has a culture established, then a 23-year-old college graduate is not likely to make much of a difference in terms of
changing that.
Here’s my advice, and Jason knows that I am a huge advocate of church planting. If you want to have a big part in the
say of the way a church develops its culture, go join a church plant. There’s not much pay, or maybe there’s none, you
may be a volunteer communications director in a church plant. But if you want to be a church communications director
and you want to actually be able to contribute to creating the culture, that’s where you do that, you’re not going to be
able to do that in a 150-year-old church.
Well, I think that longevity creates influence. And so 12 years in, I turn around and really kind of sometimes awe that I
have some influence in things that happen and it’s very humbling, but it didn’t come overnight, and it shouldn’t have
come overnight. And our society is all about me right now, unfortunately, and it probably bleeds into church a lot. And if
you can say it’s not about me, and get that out of the way, you have a greater opportunity to last and find a voice.
Yeah. Really well said. All right, let’s land this plane because we’ve been asking tough questions, and, you know,
we’ve gotta wrap it up. But where do you get your inspiration? Like, who are you following podcasts or books or things
like that?
Yeah. I look at a lot of Groeschel stuff. We look at a lot of The Church of the Highlands, those guys are doing a lot of
things and doing a lot of things well. Robby Gallaty, his church, they’re doing great things. And so, you know, we try to
just stay on top of what churches that are growing are doing, and especially in the communication world. I don’t know
that I could give you like a set of, like, you’ve got to listen to this podcast, you got to read these books. But I also rely a
lot on my team, like they love to dive into that. Hey, look what this church is doing. Look what, you know, even secular
production, we can learn a lot from that. How do we take that and use it to influence for the kingdom? So, I don’t know,
just a lot of different places, just trying to keep our eyes peeled all the time going, what if we could do this? But I’m
probably not the best at all of that, like, I do read quite a bit, but I don’t dive into Communication 101 books. so, you
know, that’s just not how I’m built. Again, I’m not a communication director by birth, I just fell into it and realized real
quick that if I didn’t have the right people around me, I wasn’t going to make it. And so guys like John Phillips, who is
constantly bringing me stuff going, should we try this? I saw that. And I’m like, yeah, let’s try it. What I try, the boundary
that I build around myself and all that is that cultural conversation, how does what other people are doing fit into the
culture of Cross Church and not losing the culture in an attempt to be somebody we’re not? And so when we’re doing
social media, when we’re, you know, making videos, there’s all these churches doing things differently, maybe not
better, maybe better, just different. And sometimes there’s not a right or wrong, there’s an opinion, and there is a reality
that our church sits in northwest Arkansas in three locations, and we have to meet people where they are. And we don’t
want to give a perception that we’re something we’re not. So we do that, that’s one of our rules on social media, do not,
you know, because anything can be photoshopped, and now AI is making that whole world a mess. And so, you know,
I want people to, when they, and we have it a lot, a lot of churches have this, hey, I watch you online. Especially with
Covid and where it was at, people are watching online and they’ll show up and they’ll be like, I’ve been watching you
online for two years and I finally came to the church. If we’re talking about wins, that’s one of my biggest wins, is when
they show up to the physical front door and they don’t see or feel anything different than they saw and felt online as far
as a perception, a persona, then I think that’s a huge win. I’m leaning a lot on our team to bring those things to me, but
again, I love Groeschel’s stuff, and The Church of the Highlands stuff is phenomenal, they’re doing big things and I
really lean on them.
Is it called Long Hollow?
Long Hollow, yeah.
Long Hollow, okay.
Yeah, and they’re all, you know, they’re all I would say those guys are doing the best that they do at anything that they
do within the understanding of this is who we are. And, you know, Passion City, those guys, I mean, they’re they’re
they’re they’re breaking the walls down on what you can do in church production wise, social media wise. They’re
setting the standard on some of that stuff. And so we try to be imitators, but not, you know, in a way that says, oh, we’re
trying to be this. we are a cross church. We we we feel like we know who we are pretty well, and, we just glean little bits
and pieces and try to do the best we can.
Yeah.
Well, Brian, thanks so much for hanging out with Jason and me today. you are at Cross Church in northwest Arkansas.
if anybody’s passing through northwest Arkansas, they can come and knock on your door and say hi. But if they’re not
passing through northwest northwest Arkansas, maybe have some questions or would like to connect with you online,
what’s the best way for them to do that?
Yeah, just go to cross church. Com go to our staff page and I’m on the staff page.
That’s how I found you. Works pretty well.
Yeah. Did it work all right?
It worked just fine. Yeah. It was it was great. You got back to me, and here you are on the show. Um. Thanks again. We
really appreciate you hanging out with us. Those of you who have listened all the way to the end here, we thank you
very much for sticking with us. just a reminder that if you haven’t subscribed, wherever you listen to your favorite
podcasts, make sure you do that. leave us a rating. Leave us a review that helps other people find the podcast. Jason
and I are going to be recording a Burning Questions episode here in the next couple of weeks, so if you haven’t ever
submitted one of your burning questions, now would be the time to do that. You can email that to me at info at missional
Marketing.com. Just put in the subject line you got a burning question or a communications question or a podcast
question, and we’ll try to work that question in to one of our next Burning Questions episodes. Jason, thanks for
hanging out with us. Brian.

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