Bart Blair: [00:00:24] Hey, welcome to the Church Growth Interviews podcast from Missional Marketing, I’m Bart Blair, a church growth strategist. That’s what I am, boy that…
Jason Hamrock: [00:00:34] Strategist.
Bart Blair: [00:00:34] Strategist. And I’m joined by another coach and digital strategist, Jason Hamrock, CEO of Mission Marketing. Happy Thursday, we’re recording on a Thursday, so I’ll welcome you with a happy Thursday, Jason.
Jason Hamrock: [00:00:45] Hi, Pastor Bart of course, and strategist, it’s nice to see you. Thanks for carving out some time, this is be fun.
Bart Blair: [00:00:53] I’m a strategic pastor.
Jason Hamrock: [00:00:55] Yes, you are.
Bart Blair: [00:00:56] Yeah, I’m not sure how well this is going to go, it’s almost 6:00 p.m. my time when we’re recording this, you kind of pushed me back a little bit.
Jason Hamrock: [00:01:04] I did.
Bart Blair: [00:01:05] And I’m really hungry, so my blood sugar is a little bit low, but hopefully, hopefully we’ll get through this without too much issue.
Jason Hamrock: [00:01:13] I’m excited for what we’re going to be talking about, because it’s the season, tis the season to be talking about Christmas.
Bart Blair: [00:01:20] Ok, it is the season to be talking about Christmas. We were talking about this earlier, it’s Fall, I think, is today actually the official first day of Fall? I think it is
Jason Hamrock: [00:01:29] It might be.
Bart Blair: [00:01:30] Yesterday or today, something like that, the first day of Fall. The weather is starting to cool off in Texas and Arizona, where you and I are, and as the weather is cooling off, our conversations with churches about Christmas are beginning to heat up.
Jason Hamrock: [00:01:42] Yeah, that’s right.
Bart Blair: [00:01:44] Yeah, yeah. So what we’re going to do is do something a little bit different. In part of season two of our new podcast season, season two of this podcast, we’re going to have more one-on-one conversations with just you and me. Although we’ve had some great guests so far, and we’ve got some other great guests coming up on the podcast this Fall, we just want to take some time once a month or so to just have a conversation between the two of us about some things that we’re seeing and experiencing, some advice, some coaching for churches, so that church leaders can tune in and take something away.
Bart Blair: [00:02:19] On that note, before we get into this particular conversation about Christmas, that’s what we’re going to be talking about. I would like to remind our friends who are listening and watching to subscribe. If you’re not subscribed on the platform in which you are consuming this content today, make sure that you subscribe. If you’re on our YouTube channel, make sure you subscribe and ring the bell, so that you don’t miss any future episodes. And if you haven’t yet left us a rating or review wherever you consume this content, please do so, that would really help us, it helps more people find our podcast, and we put a lot of work into this to try to bring great, relevant, and useful content to church leaders and church communications professionals. And if you find it useful, we hope that you’ll share it with others. So yep, that’s all I got to say about that. So Jason, we’re going to talk about Christmas. What do you have to say about Christmas?
Jason Hamrock: [00:03:07] Well, I think it’s going to be a really interesting year this year. Obviously, last year, we were in the thick of COVID, and so it was kind of dictated to you a little bit about what you could do, you just wanted to play it safe. Some churches were wide open, some churches were still closed. I think this year, it’s still there, but it’s a lot less. You know, I think this is a great opportunity, a great season, to get people engaged, get them back into church.
Bart Blair: [00:03:35] But you know, before we talk really about Christmas, let’s back up, OK? Because here we are in early October, I’m having a lot of conversations with churches about a strategy for the Fall leading up to Christmas. And that’s kind of what I want to talk about today is getting you to think about what is your strategy? Not just, yeah, we’re going to do something in October, we’ll do something in November, and then Christmas, you know, December will be Christmas and we’ll kind of go into the New Year, we’ve got some big plans for the New Year. Awesome, but what are you doing now to get people to engage?
Jason Hamrock: [00:04:07] And so, you know, a lot of churches that we’re talking to, and you’re probably one of them, you’ve got some opportunities in and around October, right, to do like a trunk or treat, or, you know, a Fall festival kind of thing. Easy, low-hanging fruit opportunities for families in the community to come to your property, it’s very non-threatening, and just have a good time and get to know you. I love those kinds of events because they kind of, they build a bridge of communication, a connection with somebody that’s in your community that may know who you are, but just because they drive by, but they don’t really know who you are. And so to me, take advantage of that, but don’t just stop there. Take advantage of these families that have come onto your property, have them RSVP, right? You know, no cost, or some churches have them pay, you know, it’s like a few bucks for each kid to kind of pay for food and stuff like that. Whatever the cost is, you know, just make sure you have an opportunity to collect information so that you can invite them back.
Jason Hamrock: [00:05:11] What do you invite them back to, church? Well, maybe, or maybe you move to the next phase, which could be a Thanksgiving kind of a thing. Or maybe right after the after Thanksgiving, you invite them back for a, I know one church is going to do a gingerbread making Saturday morning with families, so every family that comes in, the kids each get a gingerbread kit. you know, those little gingerbread kits, and they build a gingerbread house on campus, more connection. And then you invite them to like your Christmas Eve service, you make these intentional connections to get people on your campus. It’s a great opportunity, in my opinion, to do that. So I kind of want to paint that picture about what you could do leading up to the Christmas season, don’t just think Christmas, think Fall.
Bart Blair: [00:05:59] Yeah, I think one of the things that is important for pastors and church leaders to remember, is that everyone needs to know what their next step is. And so when I’m coaching pastors, whether we’re talking about a discipleship pathway, or an outreach strategy, we’re always talking about next steps. What’s the next step that you want people to take? And so as you’re planning your Fall activities, and you’re rounding the calendar into 2022, processing next steps is really important.
Bart Blair: [00:06:27] Before you move on, let me just share real quick a thing that, I’m working with a church here in Dallas, and they’re flipping the script on their trunk or treat this year. Now, by the time this podcast comes out, it may be too late for churches to pivot on what they were planning to do, but maybe you stick this in your idea bucket for 2022. They’ve been doing a trunk or treat for years, they have hundreds and hundreds of kids that come to their campus to collect candy every year. But one of the things they’ve realized is that it’s become really difficult for them to create the kind of engagement in that experience that they really wanted to because people are coming in there getting their stuff, and then they’re off, they’re not really there for much of anything else other than they get candy. So the church this year is flipping the script and saying instead of doing trunk or treat on our campus, we’re going to empower the people in our church, in their neighborhoods, to be ambassadors for our church and for Jesus in their community. So they’re printing yard signs that go in the yard of every person who signs up, who wants to do this, and it identifies them as a part of the church, the church is called Tabernacle Church, and they’re calling it Trick or Treating with Tabernacle. So they’ll have this big sign that says Trick or Treat with Tabernacle, it has a QR code on it. And when they go to that house, that has the Trick or Treat with Tabernacle sign in the yard, they can scan the QR code and enter to win a prize, and they’re going to be doing a drawing when Halloween is over.
Bart Blair: [00:07:53] Now, the reason they’re doing this is twofold. One, they really want to encourage the people in their communities to identify themselves as part of the church, right, and to make those connections and be representatives in their neighborhood, not just on the campus of the church building. But the second thing they’re going to do is collect probably hundreds and hundreds of email addresses that they will use to promote the rest of their Fall activities to invite people to the next two or three events. And the conclusion will be Christmas Eve, and when Christmas Eve is done, they’ll send them one final email and invite them to come out in the New Year, in 2022, and then that’ll be that. They’re only going to use that email list for maybe four or five drip campaign emails to invite people to the next steps, and then they’ll drop it. But they’ve got some good prizes, a few different prizes that people can sign up for, and that’s just something that they’re doing that’s hopefully going to help them engage more people in their community. So I thought that was a pretty creative idea, and I wanted to share that.
Jason Hamrock: [00:08:52] I love that creativeness, right? My church years ago bought a ton of pumpkins, and they gave them to the members and said, hey, go take one or two pumpkins, don’t keep them for yourself. Think about that one person you want to invite to go to your house for Halloween, and go deliver the pumpkin to them and say, it’s a gift for my church and I just want to invite you over, you know, at our and our driveway, and just build a relationship at that point. I like both of those, I think that’s a really good, a really creative, idea.
Bart Blair: [00:09:24] That’s neat. So let’s follow up what you just shared there with maybe a little bit of strategy. So we’re a digital marketing company, and so we spend a lot of time with churches talking about how to leverage digital tools for more outreach. So a church has put together their Fall plan, they’ve got an activity in October, maybe something in November, they’ve got maybe a couple of things happening in December. What do you suggest churches do to leverage their digital presence, and their digital tools, to actually get people connected to those events and activities?
Jason Hamrock: [00:09:57] Yeah. Well, I made a list. I’ma check it twice. See what I did there?
Bart Blair: [00:10:03] Ok, I did. Ok, all right.
Jason Hamrock: [00:10:06] So first of all, first of all, when you’re thinking about and when you’re creating these events, obviously be very mindful of guests, right? You want to be an inclusive kind of, you want everybody to be able to come, but you want to speak a language that they would understand. So that’s just a communication director wearing his hat going, make sure it’s really targeted to outside people. You’re probably going to build a landing page, I always highly recommend any time you have any kind of an event, you create a really good, solid landing page. What that landing page is, so to define that, it’s your URL forward slash, Harvest Festival, or Christmas, or Easter? It’s a landing page, so if you’re having QR codes, or you’re doing some digital advertising, you’re driving traffic to that landing page.
Jason Hamrock: [00:10:58] So let’s talk about that landing page. Here’s what I always recommend, take the time to build a really, really, really solid landing page that has lots of information, and calls to action, that I’ll talk about in just a second. But what you want to do, is you want to create one where you could just build templates after the fact. So if you take the time to build it right the first time, all you have to do is like, duplicate it for Easter, don’t start from scratch, right? So on that landing page, I highly recommend, obviously all the information about it, but I highly recommend a video or two, right, about what’s going on. Maybe you do some sermon snippets, like the best of what your pastor has preached recently, have that on that page somewhere. Have great call to actions, get the user clicking, certainly planning a visit to come join your church. But I’m a big, huge fan, and so are you, Bart, of gated content? So if it’s something around like Harvest Festival, maybe it’s a, you know, maybe it’s a little block of information that says, like, you know, the ultimate guide to building the best pumpkin, or carving the best pumpkin, or something, right, something creative. Just enter your name and your email address and download now, right? And that PDF would have, whatever, I’m making that up, totally, but you could talk about all kinds of cool things, you could have that gated content that’s a download.
Jason Hamrock: [00:12:19] I know another church that I actually talked to yesterday, and they’re having a harvest festival leading up to Christmas stuff. But with COVID, it’s kind of like they’re a little unsure if they can, actually…I mean, here we are, it’s coming into October, but that’s like a month away and with COVID kind of on the rise, they’re not sure. So, what they’re going to do is they’re going to say text the word harvest to their number, and then they’ll keep you updated as to the status of what’s going on. Well, guess what you just did, you collected a cell phone number that you can keep texting, right? That’s phenomenal.
Jason Hamrock: [00:12:55] So on that landing page, have these other opportunities for people to download stuff, or sign up for something, or text, or watch. Have information about children’s ministry, if this is about, you know, this is harvest festival or even if it’s Christmas, have information around that, right? A lot of people are, you know, with Christmas, since we’re talking about Christmas, you know, a lot of people really don’t experience Christmas the way that you and I might experience Christmas. A lot of people, you know, they think about the loss of a loved one over the years or whatever, so it’s kind of a difficult time, so have information about where they can get some help. So there are all kinds of things you can do on that landing page, that can speak to more than just the who, what, where, when, why, and really take the time to build that out right.
Bart Blair: [00:13:44] I would say, you know, one of the easiest times of year to collect people’s information as it relates to an event or an activity that you’re going to have is Christmas season. So if you’re going to do like an advent concert, or you’re doing a Christmas Eve service, one of the easiest ways to do that is to promote it as basically you got limited seating. You know, you’re going to have limited seats, and have an RSVP system for people who are interested in attending. If you’re, you know, if you’re sanctuary auditorium seats five hundred and you don’t ever get more than three hundred or three hundred and fifty people, it might feel weird asking people to RSVP, but I’d do it anyway. I would ask people to RSVP so that you can collect that information, and then have some sort of specific follow-up strategy. It doesn’t have to be anything too elaborate, but a two or three email series follow-up after Christmas to ensure that you’ve made some additional contact before and after that event. You know the same thing at Easter, but that’s something that I would recommend. it’s just, gated content is great. One of the things that I have recommended to churches in the past is, if you’re going to have a children’s program, a special children’s program at Christmas, or something, ask families to pre-register their children. And if they pre-register their children, you’ll have a special gift for their child when their child arrives. And this does two things, it actually expedites the check-in process because the first time they come, they don’t have to fill in all the stuff, all they have to do is put in the name and check in their child because they’re already pre-registered. And secondly, it gives them that incentive to actually show up because you’ve told them once you register your child, we’re actually going to have something for your child, so I’ve seen some churches do that in the past.
Jason Hamrock: [00:15:34] Yeah, I love that. Another thing you could do, so always utilize your own people, right, print a flyer, something to give them to hand out. Use your, you’ve got all these marketing minions sitting in your seats, take advantage of that. And if you’ve not done that in a while, I highly recommend you do that constantly, regularly. We’ve got to train our own people, right, not just once or twice a year, Christmas and Easter, we extend an invitation. No, no, no, no, every month you should be offering, you know, sharing with your congregation, hey, bring a friend, don’t just come alone, right? So print something up. Another one…
Bart Blair: [00:16:15] Can I comment? Well, let me comment on the printing of a flyer, okay, just one quick thing. In my previous church where I was pastoring, we would print flyers, we would just print enough for everyone in our congregation to have two, and we would hand them out two weeks in a row. And I would stand up front, and I would hold the flyer, and I would explain, we’ve given you this flyer, it’s not for you, it’s for someone that you know that we don’t know. And so please use this flyer to invite a friend, a neighbor, a colleague, a coworker, a relative, someone, you know, and the cost of printing flyers is really not that that great, the cost of mailing flyers is a different story. And so let’s talk a little bit about the digital flyer, Google Display Network, that’s what you wanted to talk about next. How was that transition, that segway?
Jason Hamrock: [00:17:08] Yeah, that was nice, that was really smooth there, Bart. So we called that interruptive advertising, right? And you know, you have all kinds of ways to advertise digitally on a phone, on a desktop, or a tablet, and we call it interruptive because you’re interrupting people. So Facebook ads, Instagram, Google Display, Tik Tok, YouTube, great platforms to advertise and capture somebody’s attention. I’m a big fan of Facebook, but you know, when you advertise in Facebook, it’s good, but you’re going to get mostly females clicking on those ads and mostly older, you know, 50 and older, which isn’t bad, it’s great. But I also like to use Google Display Network ads, Google Display Network ads are ads that show up on different websites, different games, different apps. Those clicks, those clicks come from a lot younger people, like twenty-five to forty-five-year-olds consume a majority of the clicks, and male to female is almost 50/50, if not sometimes more males than females. So you really want to cover all your bases and do both, and they’re both super cost-effective. You know, and this is stuff I always share with churches, like you can go do this stuff on your own you, you might want to have somebody who knows what they’re doing, a local person, or us, or somebody who knows what they’re doing in this space. But it’s a very, very effective way to connect with people and get them to click on your website, get on your landing page, and learn about your event.
Bart Blair: [00:18:40] Yeah. You know, I know every church knows they need to be on Facebook, and advertising on Facebook has become a somewhat normative thing for churches. It is fairly simple, it’s easy to build an audience, it’s easy to get your ads running on Facebook. Yeah, but and this is not anecdotal, we can pull the data and we can show you the data, that the click through audience on Facebook ads is relatively homogenous, it is typically women between the ages of fifty and sixty-five. So, and again, if that’s your target as a church, then, by all means, advertise on Facebook. It’s not to say that people who aren’t in that category won’t see your ads, but those are the people that the data shows us typically click those ads.
Jason Hamrock: [00:19:34] That’s right.
Bart Blair: [00:19:35] And when we run ads on Facebook, we’re also pushing ads to Instagram, we see very, very few clicks on Instagram because the eighteen to thirty-five-year-old doesn’t typically click ads on Instagram, that’s not why they’re there. But as you said, Jason, the Google Display Network gives you a much, much broader audience, and more diversity in your clicks. The same with YouTube, Youtube is another great place to run interruptive campaigns. If you’re going to run a 15 to 20-second ad that doesn’t take a whole lot of production work, right, something very simple, you can run the same video ads in the Google Display Network and YouTube, and you just got to get people’s attention right out of the gate. Do you want to talk a little bit more about videos?
Jason Hamrock: [00:20:26] Oh, I love, yeah, I love videos. And I don’t, so some churches really go deep on going, we’re going to have a really cool, polished, produced video. Awesome, because you might want to share that on your platforms, or certainly show it in church. You know, but what really works well, especially Tik Tok, it’s just that authentic, authentic, low produced, literally holding an iPhone, just connecting with people. That actually works way more effective than a super high quality, very well produced, type of a commercial. Not that you can’t do that and put it, you know, put it on TV, or your website, or post it on Facebook, or whatever. I’m just saying, I think it’s a lot more authentic and real when you’re just kind of like being yourself and literally standing outside, or in a hallway, or something like that, and just kind of be real. To me, that that that has proven to to work well. I mean, over the course of a year, we push out, you know, with Google and everything we do, we push out millions of ads, we’ve got a lot of data that’s come back to tell us what works and what doesn’t work.
Bart Blair: [00:21:38] Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that, some of the best YouTube ads that I’ve seen churches run were pretty much cell phone videos. And a big part of the reason I believe they perform well is that people are kind of immune to commercials. So if I’m watching a YouTube video and a commercial comes up, I’m just waiting to skip. If I’m scrolling through Facebook, or Instagram, or some other platform, and I see something that’s highly polished and produced, I recognize it’s an ad and I have trained myself to mute the ad or skip the ad at my first opportunity. But if the ad is an authentic handheld cell phone video, I’m much more likely to pay attention for just a minute to figure out who it is and what they’re actually talking about. I will say this, you know, obviously our phones these days can be pretty incredible video equipment in them, and so the production quality of your video is actually going to be pretty good, even though you can tell it’s a cell phone video. It is important to invest in audio equipment of some sort, because people will be forgiving of a bad video, but if they can’t hear clearly or understand what you’re saying, it kind of ruins the point. So investing in some kind of a microphone, that’s the word I was looking for, microphone that you can plug into your phone, or you can connect Bluetooth to your phone, even using the AirPod microphone. I talked to a pastor who was during COVID, and he had to go to church online, and he didn’t have a microphone to connect to his phone, and he was broadcasting on Facebook. So he took his AirPod, and put it on a little stand in front of him, and he just spoke into the AirPod. His quality is actually pretty good, and it reduces noise, and it wasn’t too bad. But that that audio quality is going to be important so that people can hear and understand what you’re saying.
Jason Hamrock: [00:23:35] It is, it is. Yep, yep. So, and then, let’s move on because I think what’s another important component when you’re kind of planning this out is what are you inviting them to back? Like, what’s the next thing you’re going to bring them back to, right? And so often, when I talked to churches and we get into the details of Christmas, I’ll say, what are you doing in January? And sometimes their response is we haven’t gotten that far yet. I’m like, oh, you’re missing out. What do you mean? Well, OK, you can have all these people clicking on ads, we’re going to drive a ton of traffic to your Christmas landing page, and then you’re going to have a whole bunch of people in your room right at Christmas season, Christmas Eve services or whatnot, what are you going to do to invite them back? So even on that Christmas landing page, talk about what you’re doing in January. Maybe you’re going to have Financial Peace University to pay off all the Christmas debt, right? Might be a good thing to do, or like a January sermon series, or whatever you’re going to be doing there, start promoting that on that landing page, right? Plant the seed of what’s coming up in the future that somebody might want to pay attention to, and certainly during that Christmas event, be thinking about what you’re doing next year, in the new year.
Jason Hamrock: [00:24:51] Our church often would, we’d give a gift if you came to the Christmas Eve service, every family got like, we’d give a book away, and we’d have a sermon series in that book. Like we had Bob Goff come, so everybody got his book and then we had a sermon series, and then in like mid-February Bob came and spoke. It’s just kind of a cool way to, here’s a gift, here’s a book for each family, and it’s going to help your family. Come back, we’re going to launch this series and we want to get you into the church in the new year, and that worked really, really well.
Bart Blair: [00:25:25] I think that’s really good. Again, it goes back to the whole adage we were talking about earlier, which is thinking next steps, what’s the next step? What’s the next thing that you’re pointing people to? I will say that, you know, if your hope and expectation is that you’re going to get people to your trunk or treat, or to your Fall Harvest, or to your Advent concert, and that they’re naturally going to migrate to your Sunday morning service, I think that’s too big of a gap to bridge. That’s the word I’m looking for, gap to bridge. I think incremental things, like financial peace, or a marriage conference, or marriage retreat, or some kind of parenting workshop, and it doesn’t even necessarily have to be something that you, your church is putting on or producing, something you can hire or bring somebody in from the outside. I know a lot of churches are bringing in consultants and experts to work with parents on helping their kids manage and navigate things like social media, it’s just huge, huge, stuff. And so, you know, promoting at Christmas, that in January, you’re going to have an all-day Saturday workshop on helping parents help their kids make wise choices online and bring in an expert. It doesn’t have to be spiritual, it doesn’t have to be religious in nature, it’s just something that shows that you as a church are trying to add value to the people in your community, building trust with them, and understanding that it’s just going to take some time to build those relationships that you want so that a person who’s far from God wants what you have, which is more than just a church that you attend, but a Savior that you follow. And so those are the things that I tend to, I get pretty excited about that stuff.
Jason Hamrock: [00:27:01] Well, and I got to tell you, you know, all these people come to your campus for harvest festival or, you know, November, or December, if you peel back the layer, there’s a lot going on underneath. And this is a true statement, in January, every January, it’s the most times throughout any month of the year where people file for divorce, January. So they kind of knew they were going to separate and get a divorce, they kind of stick it out through the holidays for the sake of the family and the kids, come January, we’re done, we’re calling it quits. No doubt there’ll be people sitting in your church, that’s going to happen. So knowing that, just as you said, what could you do, what could you offer, that could maybe reverse that course, because you just you don’t know, but you have huge opportunities.
Jason Hamrock: [00:28:03] So yes, the birth of Christ, that’s why we’re celebrating, and just the great tradition of Christmas, all this kind of thing, you want to celebrate that, you want to bring people closer to Jesus. But also, you kind of want to go where they are and meet them in their need. They’re sitting in your congregation, or they’ve clicked on your ad, and you have an opportunity to kind of minister to them right there and get them thinking differently. And so just huge opportunities, in my opinion, more than just, oh, it’s Christmas. Like, we get to, you and I both get to talk to a lot of communication directors, and it’s like every week, right, is a big deal. Sunday’s coming again, and all these events and all this stuff and everything we have to do. And it seems like Christmas, well, we plan out for that and then we get in motion, and we’re just trying to stay ahead, stay ahead, stay ahead.
Jason Hamrock: [00:29:02] I want to encourage you, church, slow down a little bit, slow down, and think about this huge opportunity this season. Like last year, not a lot of people showed up in church for good reasons, I think it’s going to be different this year, I hope it’s going to be different this year, take advantage of it because you just don’t know what people are dealing with.
Jason Hamrock: [00:29:24] You and I were talking about this, Carey Nieuwhof a guest on his podcast, Rick Warren. And Rick was talking about that next wave of what churches are going to have to deal with, with their people, is grief. They’re grieving over all kinds of stuff, and we have to take that seriously. And so this is a great opportunity, a great season, to be mindful of that.
Bart Blair: [00:29:50] Absolutely. Well, Jason, we have covered a lot of different things, I hope that it was logical and helpful for our guests who are listening. If somebody is listening or watching the podcast today, Jason, and they’re like, OK, I recognize some of the things that Jason is saying or things that I haven’t thought about, and I need some help. What should they do to get help?
Jason Hamrock: [00:30:13] Well, reach out to us, go to missionalmarketing.com. And a couple of things you can do, you can schedule a time if you click on the lower right, there’s like a schedule button so you can schedule time with me or schedule time with Bart. You can also email us, and this will be in the notes. our emails can be there. Be more than happy to have some complimentary time with you to help you, you know, just answer some questions, give you some sound advice. At the heart of who we are, we want to be a teacher, we want to share, we want to educate and equip, so you win, I mean, we care desperately about reaching people and connecting them to Jesus, that is the answer. We think that’s best done through the local church, your church, so we’re here to help. So that’s what I would encourage you to do, schedule some time with Bart or myself, we’ve got a bunch of great coaches on our team. We would love to just talk with you and offer advice.
Bart Blair: [00:31:11] Absolutely, I think that’s a great way to wrap this up. I’m hungry, my dinner is in the oven, I can smell it. So, I’ve been smelling it for like last 20 minutes, so I’m kind of…
Jason Hamrock: [00:31:20] You are starting to drool, like just kind of wipe something off of there.
Bart Blair: [00:31:22] It’s all right. Hey, next week, our next episode, is going to be an interview with Alan George. And if you don’t know who Alan George is, Alan George used to be on staff at Life Church in Oklahoma, he was the director of their church online platform. And he’s just a really, really awesome guy, really super bright, and we’re looking forward to sharing that interview with you, our guests, our listeners, our friends, our fans, however, you categorize yourself. Thanks again for tuning in. Again, if you haven’t left a rating or review and you’re not subscribed, make sure you take care of those things. And if you need help planning your Christmas promotions, doing digital ads, or just want to bounce some ideas off of someone, make sure that you reach out and schedule a time to meet with us, we’d love to meet with you.