5 Ways to Communicate to Those Who Aren’t Listening | Mark MacDonald

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Our guest Mark MacDonald discusses with us 5 ways for the church to communicate to those who aren’t listening.

Podcast Transcription

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Jason Hamrock: Well, hey, Mark, welcome to the show. How are you doing, my friend?

Mark MacDonald: I’m doing really well. And we got to catch up a little bit before you hit the record button, and you guys are really busy, we’re really busy. I mean, that means that the church is on fire.

Jason Hamrock: Well, God is good, so, yes. Yes, the church is on fire. It’s fun to see growth, you know, more and more people are showing up to church who haven’t been to church before, at least that’s what we keep hearing. So, you know, God is good.

Mark MacDonald: So yeah, I mean, there’s been so many disruptors that have happened. I mean, Covid was such a huge disruptor. And I know any time that the church calls and complains about something, it’s like, you know what? God’s going to use that somehow.

Jason Hamrock: He is. Yeah, you know, we were at church this weekend and we had a baptism weekend. You know, some of them are scheduled, but then you’re like, you know, the person gets up and says, the host says, hey if you want to get baptized, if you want to say yes and get baptized, come on. Well, we had more people just get up and go, they weren’t planning on it, but the Spirit worked in their lives. And you look at these people going, this is awesome, this is really, really cool. And I think that’s happening a lot, and so that was just, you know, this weekend.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah, at the church that we go to here in Jacksonville, Florida, I mean they had a beach baptism and the whole church gathered at the beach and 1600 people were baptized.

Bart Blair: Oh my gosh, that is amazing.

Jason Hamrock: Wow.

Mark MacDonald: And I mean, it was a nice day for it, which is a great thing, but…

Bart Blair: Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce you to the decline of the church in North America. Come on.

Mark MacDonald: I know the thing is, is that more and more, I’m hearing about hundreds of people that are being baptized, and really, there is a disconnect between, you know, the church and the community oftentimes that I think that we need to pay attention to. But the people who are committing to actually, you know what, I need something different in my life. It’s just so wonderful to see, people, you know, taking that next step to baptism.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah. Oh, that’s so cool.

Bart Blair: I’ve had the opportunity since Easter, and we’re about five weeks out since Easter Sunday, I’ve met with dozens and dozens of Missional Marketing churches, and with the exception of maybe a couple, almost every church hits some sort of record weekend attendance on Easter weekend. And my experience is that, yes, there are churches that are in decline, there are churches that are struggling out there, but the churches that we have the opportunity to partner with are churches that do have an intentional plan for connecting with people in their community who don’t yet know Jesus. And we see over and over again that those churches that have an intentional plan are seeing the fruit from that. And, you know, there’s all those doomsday prophets out there talking about how the church in North America is in decline and fewer and fewer people are interested in things of faith, but I mean, this is not anecdotal evidence, this is like church after church after church that we’re talking to is seeing a Kingdom impact in their community, and we’re just excited to be along for the ride with that.

Mark MacDonald: And I think that intentional plan is the word because, you know, there are a lot of churches that, you know, we almost mock it sometimes where we say, well, we’ve never done it that way before. And the thing is, is that there’s a lot of churches that are in stagnation or decline, and they’re just doing it the same way. And so, you know, whether they hire you all, or us, or any of the great groups that are out there, just do something different, like just improve something so that you connect more with your community. God’s placed, you know, every local church in a community for a particular reason, and we believe that they need to figure out what that reason is and then just keep saying it over and over again so they become known for it.

Jason Hamrock: Well, Mark, thanks for coming back on the show. He’s a dear friend of ours, he’s been here before, and he does a lot of great things for the church. Mark’s a really creative guy, and if you don’t know, Mark wrote a book called Be Known for Something, and, we’ve recommended that book to different churches that we’ve connected with. Mark, just give our audience, just for the new people who don’t know who you are, a little bit about yourself and talk about what your focus is.

Mark MacDonald: Well, I am Mark McDonald and I am a Canadian, eh, but I’ve been American now for almost four years, which just seems like it’s flown by. But I get to run a great group of people called Be Known For Something, and that Be Known For Something is really just focusing in on what we just talked about. What is the thread that will calm all of your messages and it will connect you with your community? Why? Because the community needs what your thread is. And so if you can come up with that 3 to 5 words, that simple thread that is a traditional brand positioning statement so that you differentiate yourself from all the other churches that look exactly the same, and especially for those people that are outside of the church, all churches are the same. And so how do you say something so that they say, whoa, I need that, but I never expected to get it from a church? And that’s where we go, that’s how we’ll connect and be known for love in our communities.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah. Wow. That book has blessed a lot of people, so if you haven’t gotten Mark’s book, get it, go find it on Amazon or anywhere you buy books, Be Known For Something.

Mark MacDonald: And we just came out with our audio edition, so you can actually listen to it now.

Jason Hamrock: Wonderful.

Bart Blair: Did you read it yourself?

Mark MacDonald: Uh, no. So we could open up a whole other thing. So it was all AI done, and so anyone who listens to it, like at first I thought, no way, I want to read it, and then I heard the I read it and they do so much better than I do. So we got to choose, there were six readers, and you get to choose which reader you want, and so it’s somebody who sounds similar to me.

Bart Blair: I’m going to venture a guess that their hourly rate is a little cheaper than yours as well, so that works pretty well.

Mark MacDonald: It’s just slightly lower, plus it took 15 minutes.

Bart Blair: So there you go.

Mark MacDonald: So they read my whole book in 15 minutes, and then it was published within an hour, so you gotta love that.

Jason Hamrock: So you gotta go get that. You also do a ton of writing. Mark’s coming up on 850 articles that he’s published. Wow, so congratulations on that, that’s pretty cool.

Mark MacDonald: Thank you. And really if anybody wants any, like all of those articles, so what we do is we publish through you know like LifeWay and a lot of the other newspapers, Christian newspapers, and magazines. But if you want to see every one of them, if you go to beknownforsomething.com/articles or just click on the articles tab, they’re all there, they’re all searchable, so you can search for whatever you’re looking for and be able to find it. And then, this sounds like overly promotional because it is, but if you go to /subscribe, so beknownforsomething.com/subscribe and fill out that short form. Make sure you choose podcasts under the conferences so I know how you found me, and then every week we’ll send you a brand new article, and they’re always just a very quick read. And they, you know, less than 300-400 words. So I just want to be a service to, the church world out there.

Jason Hamrock: That’s awesome. Yep, so go do that. Ok, so there’s one article, though, that you came out with that we really want to kind of dive into today, and I think it’s a fantastic topic to talk about. On the beknownforsomething.com, there are five ways to communicate to the nones who aren’t listening. The nones and the dones are the people that don’t go to church, and we use that phrase all the time, the nones and the dones. So, Mark, take a minute and just talk to us about those five ways to communicate to the nones. What caused you to come up with this article, and what were you thinking?

Mark MacDonald: Well, there was some new research, and we try to base everything, like even our branding process, we do it entirely based on reliable research because we know that even though you might not agree with the research, usually the research, if it’s done well, is correct. And you’ve got to figure out, so this is the plate that we’ve been served, so how do we deal with it? And Pew Research came out with, kind of a staggering informational piece about the nones. Which for some of you who are listening, you’re thinking, oh, they were talking about the church, so they must be talking about Catholic nuns. We’re not, so it’s n o n e s the people who are religiously unaffiliated. So, the crazy part is that I get to travel an awful lot and work with churches everywhere, oftentimes I’ll try to strike up a conversation with somebody that’s on a flight with me. And it always used to be that when the church came up, because I work with churches, so it usually comes up in our conversation, somebody will say, oh yeah, I go to such and such a church, or I was married at least in a church. But more and more, I’m amazed at how many people have no connection to any religious affiliated organization, whether that’s a church. Oftentimes I’ll say, yeah, but you were married in a church, and they’ll go, no, actually, we rented a space and there was this beautiful, pristine area that we wanted to be married in. And it’s crazy how many people have no connection to a church at all, and a lot of times, I think anecdotally, we know that the community has moved more into a disconnect with the church, they don’t understand church at all. And in fact, this group, the nones, I mean, there was a sociologist named Gragun I think it is, his last name was, and he compared in the 1980s, which seems like yesterday, but it wasn’t. Some people who are listening are going, the 1980s, that’s like…

Jason Hamrock: I wasn’t born then.

Mark MacDonald: The turn of the century. But in the 1980s, only 5 to 7% of the United States, were nones, the people who are just religiously unaffiliated. Now jump forward to 2023, and 28% of the United States is in that none category, so it’s just skyrocketed. And crazy enough, many things have just changed with this group and the article, which my article is connected to that article, so you can read the original article that talks about the Pew Research. But things have really changed in that group, it used to be kind of mainly white, and mainly men, and really young, they were single, they were more apt to not be married, they were high income, and highly educated. But now when you start looking at it, it’s pretty much all the way across, the field. You know, I think, 69% of them are under the age of 50. it’s pretty much even now, rather than mainly male, it’s now about 50% men, 50% women, and really racially diverse. So the only big standout thing is that about 62% of them would vote Democratic if they decided to vote, but as we also find out in that article, is that they’re probably not likely to vote.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah. Wow. Okay, so this article really targeted this group. So, your article then goes deeper into, you know, five ways, five tips on how you can connect with these people, so let’s let’s dig into that. Talk to us about tip number one, which is community-centered communication. What do you mean by that?

Mark MacDonald: Yeah. So this group which is growing in leaps and bounds are probably not likely to ever want to listen to the church. And so if you’re in church communications today, you should, your heart should break for these people. This is if Jesus walked the earth today, he would be leaning into this group, and I think that every church needs to do that. And that whole idea of community-centered communication, I mean, we just need to figure out somehow, without requiring them to come to church, we need to get their attention. And in order to do that, I know that we’ve said it, over and over again, that we need to get outside of our walls of the church, and this group will probably not just show up on a Sunday morning or even tune into your URL to watch a service online. Instead, we need to go to them, and we need to get their attention somehow.

Jason Hamrock: And do things that they like to do, which is getting in the community, serving the community, get outside the walls, and make sure they’re aware that, hey, come join us as we’re doing community, you know, acts of kindness and serving in the community. Is that kind of the idea and the thread?

Mark MacDonald: Exactly, so we need to figure out what they’re doing and then join in and do it with them. The big thing here is that that whole idea of community-centered, weirdly enough, if you read the article, these people are community disengaged. So you know, it almost sounds like it’s like counterintuitive. But what we’re talking about is not necessarily your community that you live in, they’re all seeking community. So when you talk to them, they might live in your community, but they don’t feel like they’re part of the community. And so when we come alongside of them as a church, we can show them what true community is, but it’s weird, we can’t expect them to come to us and experience our community. Because oftentimes when I’m talking to churches, I’m sure when you’re talking to churches, it’s like, oh man if they come here, they’ll be able to see, and when they walk through the doors we’ll embrace them. The problem is that it’s wrong thinking that we’ve got to go to them and take our community to them, because more than likely, they’re seeking community.

Jason Hamrock: That is really good insight. Okay, that’s the first one. The second one I really like, the second one, is storytelling with purpose. Dive into that one.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah. So this is, I think we’ve all kind of figured this out on our own. The church does this fairly well, or most churches who are growing have done this really well. You might have a pastor who stands up and preaches God’s word and and gives you some incredible, knowledge and understanding of the Bible. But somehow we need to figure out how do we tell it in a story fashion. People will engage a lot longer when it’s done as a story. And that power of connection that can happen that we just talked about, where people are looking for community, we need to take that down to a personal level and then allow testimonials and a lot of the stories that, like ministry stories, that we have in the church. We need to present them in such a way so that people in the none’s category will see that there’s inward change, and that’s the shift that I think we need to take as a church. These people, when you look into the Pew research, they’re not necessarily against spirituality, they’re just against religion. So because of that, what we see is that people have adopted spirituality, they believe that there is a Spirit and that we need to be able to nurture that Spirit. And we also know that they understand that change has to happen inside before it can transform on the outside. So what those stories need to do is it has to emphasize that there’s something that has changed inside, and that’s how this story came to be.

Jason Hamrock: I hear that, and I just think that that is such a great way to connect people, to say, if I have an issue, and I engage and I see that somebody else had that same issue, but they’ve gone ahead of me and they’ve worked through it, and there’s hope on the other end of that story, that gives me hope.

Mark MacDonald: Amen.

Jason Hamrock: You said before, that I think people are turned off by the institutional church religion, but they’re not turned off by…they want to know who God is, they believe in him, but they don’t really know him. And, being able to connect at that level, that’s just genius if you can do it.

Mark MacDonald: Well, and it’s also in your storytelling if you want to get them to tune you out, start with overly religious-sounding messaging. So what we need to do is we need to connect with a purpose through the story, start talking about felt needs that they would also have, and then near the end, talk about the change that’s happened and that the catalyst for that change was Jesus Christ or some type of a more spiritual sounding message, and then give them hope. I mean, what you were talking about is really what Donald Miller had in his book Storybrand. Where it’s, you know, it’s an everyman who wants to obtain something that they’re struggling with and that a guide comes along and that guide is the church that says, we’ve been there, we’ve done it, here’s an answer, and you can do this, and they will respond directly to that messaging in that storytelling.

Bart Blair: People can argue with our theology, and they will argue with our theology all day long, but it’s really difficult to argue with someone’s real-life experience. And, you know, I immediately think of, I’m sure this is your probably your favorite book in the Bible, Mark, it’s called Mark. I think it’s Mark chapter 10, or it might be 15, where Jesus encounters a blind man, blind Bartimaeus, as he is known. And Jesus asks him, what do you want for me? And he says, Lord, I want to see. And so what does Jesus do? He doesn’t give him a theology lesson, he doesn’t teach him what he needs to do to be forgiven of his sins; he actually gives him his sight. And so I would imagine that that man Bartimaeus, who is now no longer blind, probably told his story a thousand times in his lifetime after that. And people could have argued with the theology all day long, they could have argued with whether or not Jesus was the Messiah all day long, but they could not argue with the fact that this man was blind, and now he can see. And those are the stories that we need to be looking to tell from our own experience, from the experience of people in our church community and our faith family.

Mark MacDonald: Well, and oftentimes I think that we think, oh my goodness, I’ve got to tell them everything. No, you don’t, you just have to get them to a point where they start scratching their heads thinking, okay, I’m struggling with that, maybe there is hope for me. That’s all, like, they don’t even need to know that the hope is found in Jesus Christ. It’s more that there is hope, and I know where to find it, and that would be through the church or through somebody who goes to that church. We just need to start opening up the conversation, and I think that oftentimes we close the conversation by going to religious too fast.

Jason Hamrock: I love that. I mean, you know, people that are then the nones, they’ve been searching and coming up empty everywhere they turn, and no one’s coming to save them, but one Man did, and I think that’s what we have to communicate. Oh, so good, storytelling. I love storytelling, way to go on that one. Okay. The next one is that every church is probably trying to do this at some level, but it’s a tough one, it’s social media engagement. Which seems to be, kind of evolving all the time, you know, social media engagement. How how do you do it? So what do you have to say with that?

Mark MacDonald: Okay, so it is a treadmill and the treadmill starts you at, you know, one mile an hour, and then it goes to two miles an hour, and then three, and then before you know it, you’re running at 100 miles an hour, and then you realize I can only run at 80 miles an hour.

Bart Blair: Oh, and by the way, you’re on a treadmill, which is getting you nowhere.

Mark MacDonald: Exactly. So the key here is that it’s social media engagement. So we need to figure out how do we engage and not promote. So if we can actually engage, which if you look at the way that the world’s working, I mean, if you tune in to TikTok or into reels or, or any of the, you know, the, like even YouTube channels or things like that. I mean, when you tune into them, it’s not just an ad after an ad after an ad, yes, they do have some ads, but it’s really entertaining. And that’s where the church has to start taking the lead of what the world’s been doing and use entertainment in order to actually educate and to engage so that someone goes, oh, what’s that about? Oh, that’s cool. It doesn’t have to be long, but if it is long, it’s got to be well done. And I know that a lot of times we oftentimes think, okay, well, it doesn’t have to be like overly produced. I’m not talking about overly produced, I’m just talking about like, actually knowing where you’re headed. Like, know a structure, know like if you use Storybrand as who the everyman is who the hero of the story is, what are their concerns? What are their goals like? Have all of that, so that you become entertaining, that takes you someplace. Like when you watch a really good TikTok. Is there such a thing? Yes, there is such a thing, they’re entertaining, and sometimes at the end you go, nah, that wasn’t for me, and then you, you know, you flip by it really fast. The algorithm picks that up, oh, he doesn’t like this style, he likes this style. So why can’t the church engage and actually start a gospel-centered conversation on social media so that people might just think, wow, the church, that’s really funny, that’s really good. It’s not overly religious again, but it’s it leads somebody to believe that church has something for me.

Jason Hamrock: I think we should quote that, stop promoting, start engaging. Every church should do that because your stuff, and I mean, I know because I get to work with lots of churches when they promote a graphic or something, it tanks. When they share some kind of cool video reel, it’s more engaging, the engagement is through the roof. And it’s not trying to promote stuff necessarily, it’s just sharing, and it’s enjoyable to watch.

Bart Blair: Go ahead, Mark.

Mark MacDonald: Well, there’s a time and a place for promoting, but there’s, like, the problem is that it’s such a small component of what you’re trying to do. Like ultimately you want to be highly practical to them, but also entertaining because most people jump onto social media, and put in some extra time. Or if they don’t have any extra time, they make extra time just to, you know, scroll through and look at things. And the church has got to get into that arena and figure out where they are, where the nones are…Where, I mean, you can just Google, you know, the most popular social media right now, and you can pretty much see the style and the type of information that you need to be doing as a church.

Bart Blair: I was just going to say, if you’re going to use your social media channels for the purpose of promotion, which I think there is a time and a place for it, it’s not the most effective way of communicating the stuff that you’re doing that you want people to show up to, but it is a way. But you can also be more creative than simply creating a slide or a graphic and posting that on the social channel. You can be creative, you can tell stories, you can give people a reason to show up to what you’re asking them to show up to, or to tune in to what you want them to tune into by being more creative with the way that you’re doing that, through video, through storytelling. I mean, there’s there’s a lot more that could be done, and it takes more time for sure, but I would rather do less and do it more effectively than to just be constantly puking on the internet with tons of social media content that doesn’t really move the needle in the life of our church, or the life of the individual seeing it.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah, and really just focus on one channel and do it well before you broaden yourself. We’re on everything, you can find us everywhere, and the problem is, is that you’re probably not doing it well everywhere.

Jason Hamrock: Yeah. All right, this leads us into the next one, where things that we need to do better, and that is low-pressure invitations. So I’m thinking this is grassroots, but go ahead and explain what low-pressure invitations are.

Mark MacDonald: So, according to Pew, they say that 90% of none’s will seldom attend a church service. So, if you beg them, please, please come to our church, like, they’re just not going to respond to it, and so the low-pressure invitation is the better way, which seems, again, counterintuitive. But what we want to do is we want to try to get them to just say yes, or it just be a little bit positive towards something that the church is doing with no expectation of religious commitment, because that’s what they’re all scared of. So it’s like, I’m not going to become part of your church. It’s like, that’s not what we’re saying. And this is where you can really do a great job, as a church, where you actually coordinate and facilitate things that they would probably be doing anyway. So like, I don’t know, I mean, I’ve talked to a fair amount of these people on flights, and like, everyone’s into pickleball right now. I mean, we could have like a little pickleball moment right now. Do you guys play pickleball?

Bart Blair: I have, I wouldn’t say I do on a regular basis, but I have, yes.

Jason Hamrock: It’s so popular.

Mark MacDonald: It is, and so what if your church just threw a pickleball tournament or set up pickleball courts in the back of your church, or, you know, something that they’re probably going to be doing anyway, and all you want to do is just crack the door open for these none’s to be able to say, well, the church must know who I am, I feel seen and they are providing something for me that I’m interested in. And no one wants a religious commitment, but the conversations that you can start having at that level are the things where the Spirit and your Gospel-centered conversation, they’re going to realize there’s something different there, and they’re going to want to be part of it.

Jason Hamrock: Wow. So in other words, build relationships, but you have to meet them where they are in what they like and go from there, so don’t overthink it. A Pickleball court would be great.

Bart Blair: When I’m coaching churches on sort of an outreach strategy, the default is almost always event-based, you know, churches do tend to think event-based. And in this particular context, the example that I’m going to give is event-based, but I don’t think this is necessarily the only way to do outreach. But I use kind of an analogy of saying you want to have kind of like three levels or four levels of things that you’re inviting people to. And like level one is going to be something like a pickleball tournament or pickleball night where there is we would say, maybe a low level of intimacy and normal Jesus talk. And normal Jesus talk, meaning, like, I talk about my kids because it’s just normal for me to do. And so if I’m around a bunch of people who follow Jesus, well, we might talk about Jesus some because it’s kind of normal, but it’s not a religious event, I’m not presenting the Gospel, that’s not the point of it. But I want to move people from that level one event to a level two event where the intimacy level increases just a little bit, and maybe the intentionality about our spiritual discussion is a little stronger. And I want to move people then from a level two to a level three, where the intimacy level is now really high, we’re getting to know each other on a much deeper level, and now there is a much stronger focus on the Gospel and a person’s salvation or their hope of where they stand before God. And then that level four event is like full-on Jesus, and it’s like we’re getting to know each other and we’re full-on Jesus. Like, we’re going to sit down and we’re going to read the Gospel of John together over the next six weeks and talk about what it means to follow Jesus, right? So we started at the pickleball courts, and we move along this journey, intentionally, moving people that were far from God into a place where they’re open to having the conversation. Obviously, the relationship is a big part of that, but so is intentionality. We’ve used that word multiple times on this podcast episode because, well, it’s really important.

Mark MacDonald: Well, and it really moves, like as I’m writing articles, oftentimes, I’ll start by saying the four things that…And then by the time I hit the fourth, it’s like, oh my goodness, it just propels us to the fifth. And the fifth thing is, once you get their attention, once you have engagement, once they’re just saying, yes, I mean, we’re more than just making sure everyone loves us because we are the church. We need to make sure then to demonstrate relevance in their daily lives so that that’s number five, and that whole being relevant in their lives, you need to look at their needs, concerns, and goals; you need to be a solution to a need or a concern or a path to a goal. And if your church, oftentimes churches suffer from well, we don’t want to talk about that right now because that’s like a really hot topic that will divide, the none’s are actually leaning into those conversations to say, no, this is relevant in my daily life because it’s the talk of the town. And so the Pew research says that 81% of the none’s see religion as irrelevant in their daily lives, and we need to figure out how do we make ourselves relevant so that they’ll go, oh my goodness, earth-shattering moment, maybe the church actually has some answers to my needs. And that conversion is huge in order for us to be able to reach the nones better.

Jason Hamrock: Wow. Yeah, so good. Okay, let’s recap this because you just knocked out number five. So community center communication, storytelling with purpose, social media engagements, low-pressure invitations, and then demonstrate relevance to their daily life. If you live out that kind of stuff that’s the sweet spot for you to be in as a church, to be connecting connecting with the nones.

Mark MacDonald: Absolutely. So, I mean, the key to meeting needs where they are is to communicate to those nones in such a way so that it resonates with their interests and needs. This isn’t about you, it’s about them, and we need to get our minds off of the focus of how can we be better, how can we do this, and how can we…But it’s what can we do for them, and really serve in the way that Christ called us to serve?

Jason Hamrock: Wow. Well, so, Mark, if people want to connect with you. Because I tell you, church, who’s listening to this, if you have a need for better branding, a better message, just everything we’re talking about here, you’re going to want to connect with Mark. So how can people do that? How can they find you and reach out to you?

Mark MacDonald: Well, I think we’ve said it a few times, but beknownforsomething.com is a great place to start. You know that describes our entire branding process that we work with churches, and it’s based entirely on reliable research. And just trying to make sure we understand who the community is so that we can interpret what the church is doing and all the things that the church is doing down to one thread that you talk about regularly, so that people will know you and the community will start to pay attention to you, to the messaging that you’re doing.

Jason Hamrock: There you have it. All right.

Bart Blair: Mark, you’re an extremely gifted man, and we appreciate the fact that you use your gifts and your talents for Kingdom-building purposes, we’re glad that you’re our friend, and thanks again for making the time for us to be on our podcast. For those of you who have made it this far in the show, we know that you’ve made it this far in the show because you have a real desire to reach the people in your community. So if there’s something that Mark can do to help you and your church discover your thread and take steps forward there. Or if there’s something that Jason or I might be able to do for you to help you just sort of evaluate your current digital presence and the things that you’re doing, to leverage those, to reach more people in your community, please feel free to reach out to us. We’d love to hear your feedback on this podcast episode. If you happen to be watching on our YouTube channel, leave us a comment. I post a question at the top of every, somewhere down there, I post a question at the top of every episode. So jump into the conversation, and let us know if maybe there’s something you are specifically doing that is resonating and connecting with the people in your community that would identify as nones or dones. And, again, we just want to remind you, if you haven’t yet subscribed, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, please do that so that you don’t miss any of our future episodes. This has been another episode of the Missional Marketing Podcast. Thanks for tuning in.

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2
Grant certificate
Google Grant Eligibility Checker
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3
Outreach to young people
Millennial Content Analyzer Tool
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4
SEO magnifying glass
Keyword Analyzer Tool
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5
Monitor with graph showing improvement
Homepage SEO Audit Report
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6
Broken monitor
Website Downtime Alerts
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